Are you ready to swing into the exhilarating world of Marvel's Spider-Man 2 with us? Joined by our guest Andrew from Your Friendly Neighborhood Gamers, we're pulling back the curtain on the cinematic experience, the electrifying boss fights, and the riveting story beats that kept us on the edge of our seats. But be warned, spoilers ahead! We left no stone unturned. So, press play and join us on this high-octane ride through the Spider-Man gaming universe!
Want to keep the conversation spoiler-free or catch up on Part 1 of this crossover event? Listen to that conversation HERE! Want to hear more about how we got into gaming? Listen to the interview we did with Your Friendly Neighborhood Gamers!
🔻You can find all important links for the podcast over at https://linktr.ee/waitforitpodcast (which includes our brand new Patreon site!)🔺
🔻BACKGROUND MUSIC PROVIDED BY:
Prod. Riddiman: optimistic
🔺
Are you ready to swing into the exhilarating world of Marvel's Spider-Man 2 with us? Joined by our guest Andrew from Your Friendly Neighborhood Gamers, we're pulling back the curtain on the cinematic experience, the electrifying boss fights, and the riveting story beats that kept us on the edge of our seats. But be warned, spoilers ahead! We left no stone unturned. So, press play and join us on this high-octane ride through the Spider-Man gaming universe!
Want to keep the conversation spoiler-free or catch up on Part 1 of this crossover event? Listen to that conversation HERE! Want to hear more about how we got into gaming? Listen to the interview we did with Your Friendly Neighborhood Gamers!
🔻You can find all important links for the podcast over at https://linktr.ee/waitforitpodcast (which includes our brand new Patreon site!)🔺
🔻BACKGROUND MUSIC PROVIDED BY:
Prod. Riddiman: optimistic
🔺
Welcome to your go-to source for entertainment. Wait for it Gaming, wait for it Anime Plus, ultra, mr Eric Almighty and Phil Vafilippino. Yeah, they've got you covered and all you gotta do is Wait for it.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, welcome back to the Wait for it podcast. I am your co-host, phil Smith, aka Phil Vafilippino, and joining me, as always, is your other co-host, mr Eric Almighty. And Eric, as the part two of this cinematic crossover within the Super Bracket Pros cinematic universe is going to conclude here this evening. Certainly not the same evening we're definitely not recording this the very same night that we recorded the spoiler-free version of this conversation. Very excited to hop into all the story beats of this game, not only with yourself, but also our guest, as we, you know, just continue to return favors when it comes to the Spider-Man franchise. I'm excited to get into it.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and with the energy, the youthful energy, of recording for the first time early on, not late evening, totally excited for what's about to come. I think it's going to be a great episode. It's the first time we've kind of done something like this. So shout out to Jay Super Bracket Bros, who gave us a little bit of the idea on Discord, which Andrew was like I don't know if I want to do it. And then we were all like, let's just do it.
Speaker 3:So I think this is going to be fun. If you guys want to catch up to the conversation, I highly recommend that you check out the spoiler-free portion over at your friendly neighborhood gamers. But before we dive into spoilers, Andrew, how are you doing tonight, Since we're talking for the first time? Are you ready to talk spoilers?
Speaker 2:It's good to catch up with you. Man, it's good to see you. I know I feel like I haven't seen you in so long.
Speaker 1:It's weird that we all wore the same outfit again at this later date, but sometimes that just happens. So super excited to talk about the story sections of Spider-Man 2, the stuff that we kind of danced around over on my show, because there's a lot of stuff that happens in this game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you guys are in for one hell of an episode. We are really going to focus on the story beats, but there are a couple of things that we're going to revisit from our first conversation, things like combat suits, side missions that we really couldn't get into in detail. There's going to be a lot of that, but this is going to be very story focused, and you heard it here. This is your final warning. This is a full spoiler discussion. The three of us have beaten this game. Phil, you platinumed this game, so we are going to freely and quickly talk about our story beats. So, with all of that being said, phil, how did this game kick off and how did you react to the opening of this game?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know Peter Parker can't hold a job, he's a loser, so he immediately gets fired.
Speaker 2:That is what I took from this.
Speaker 2:I thought it was kind of funny because, like there is a before the game had even come out, portions of the Sandman fight had you know, we're showing up on online and there is the portion where Miles just gets thrown through a building and someone was like this would never happen to Peter.
Speaker 2:And then it like happens to Peter, like later on in that mission. But no, just like the very first game, when you jump through the window and you're immediately swinging through the city, it throws you right in and because again, it assumes obviously that you've played the first game, you know how to move around as both of these spider people and it's awesome. You know, like we talked about in the spoiler free episode, gives you the wed wings, tells you to hey, experiment with these, have some fun. But between you know the instrumental and the build to with the music Awesome, it really really cool and it really captures the essence of a lot of the movies as well. And you know, they always blend that cinematic experience with the gameplay and that's always a really great way to start the game.
Speaker 1:Well, and it really showed off like this is a PS5 game, because Spider-Man one and Miles Morales were both cross platform.
Speaker 1:You could play them both on PlayStation four, but having Miles get like yeeted across half of New York by a giant salmon like that just can't happen on a PlayStation four, or so they say so it is. It was really cool to have it open in such a strong fashion. Something that I just thought of that we didn't mention on the first half of this conversation that we had, like at least a week ago. Another thing they did in this game that was very PS5 only was the fast travel system when like, oh yeah, you just zip to anywhere on the map and it would just like throw you in mid swing. I thought that was really cool too, and since I thought just came to my head, I figured I'd throw it out there.
Speaker 2:Okay, you know, during the lengthy map discussion we had over, on the spoiler free episode that we probably should have brought it up there. I didn't use that feature until the end of the game, but it was really cool to be able to jump from and, you know, jump to your next objective when it comes to, you know, getting that Platinum trophy or whatever. It would have been really funny, for if that's how they revealed the new portion of the map, is Miles getting thrown to Queens.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Like that. I think that would have been really, really funny for them to do missed opportunity yeah.
Speaker 3:And you know. So for me, the Sandman fight was really cool and the cinematics of it all was really cool, but that's also where I experienced my first glitch, so it happened.
Speaker 2:Oh shit, Right away.
Speaker 3:I was like, oh, maybe this won't be a recurring theme. I was wrong, I'm very wrong, but I definitely like, uh, I liked the intro to the game. It kind of set the stage for what was what was to come as far as some of the gameplay, what we were going to expect as far as the story then started to come from, moving away from the Sandman stuff which kind of gave you something to do, like you had some villains across the city to fight. You obviously had like those stone things that you had to crack for Sandman's memories.
Speaker 3:As all of that's going on, we then get introduced to Craven and obviously Craven's a pretty big force. He kills several villains from the series and it starts to get a little crazy. So, andrew, throwing it back to you, how did it kind of feel as Craven first entered the fray? Like I talked about in the spoiler free section? You know, grunts, villain wise, like all these little characters. They all kind of felt like a fresh coat of paint from the first game. But like, what was that first impression of Craven as you got into it? And we'll kind of get into that before we talk about another character in Black Cat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, craven was. Craven surprised me how much I liked him as a character and I really like kind of the spin they put on him. Where you think he is, you're not really sure what he's doing in New York. You know he's hunting, but you at least me you kind of got the feeling that, oh, he is building up a group of supervillains that he's going to go after the Spider-Man with, but no, he's just killing anything in his path, like he straight up just mercs, scorpion, and is like, oh okay, we're going this route. That that kind of set him up as he was just kind of this force, like as a character.
Speaker 1:I don't think he was that deep or that. You know, we didn't really get to. We had. We had little flavoring and tastes from some side quests and stuff about like his home and his past and his family, but they didn't really give us a lot of that. It was more like they just showed us how tough and how no nonsense he is and then they're like all right, you're going to have to deal with this at some point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you definitely needed another villain to go alongside Venom, which we all knew was coming. But like, was Craven really the right one? I mean, it's the whole reason why we're not sure why we're getting a Craven the Hunter movie right. There's not really enough interest in that character, at least for me. A hardcore Spider-Man fans may feel differently, but like I don't want that movie, nor am I going to see it. But Craven is certainly like you said. Did they did a good job of establishing him as a real threat? We don't really know too much about him, other than we find out later. You know he's sick and that's about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think you know, for me and you know, just kind of jumping around a little bit at the beginning of the game, it felt like he was like so disconcerned with the Spider people in the city, which is weird because like once you see Spider-Man, you would think that would shoot up to the top of the list. It doesn't really happen until the symbiote gets involved. So there were some elements there that definitely didn't work. I think, when it comes to the illness and what he's really doing this for, a lot of that could have been done and explained a little bit earlier. I think by the time we do it it's not great. We also I mean, I guess this is just the sick people game. You know Harry is also terminally ill and he is Phil, as you mentioned, extremely happy. Go Lucky Came up.
Speaker 2:I'm going to ride a bike.
Speaker 3:How did you guys feel about the bike ride?
Speaker 1:I mean it was. It was fine, it was something to do. I was like we're playing as literally, spider-man, but I guess I'll go biking around and go ride a city bike around. Yeah, it didn't feel amazing. There were a lot of times where, like I'd come up on an MPC and there'd be that kind of like awkward, like Jari kind of push, they'd get pushed out of the way or I'd push out of the way or whatever it was. I understand why they did it. As far as developing the friendship and showing us Harry and showing us, you know, peter and Harry and them reconnecting and all that, and story wise, I thought it worked. I didn't really enjoy the gameplay of riding the bike.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the fact that it pops up again later. I was like are you shitting me? After ride another bike. Yeah, Like you said in introducing Harry, totally fine, I wouldn't have wanted to. Wanted to walk to the school, also drive. You got a fucking car. I don't know why they didn't just drive to school. But if you're going to introduce the bike, they're fine. But the fact that it popped up again when you're doing one of those humanitarian missions or whatever they were, it was wild.
Speaker 3:So with this story we then kind of transition into Craven, you know, obviously killing a lot of villains, as we mentioned, going after Felicia Hardy Black Cat. I want to talk to you guys I'm sure you guys were excited to discuss this about what happens in those sequences. I know I am dying for a Doctor Strange game now, so I want to see Andrew starting with you. What did you think about that whole sequence? I know, simplistic, it was simplistic game wise, like it really wasn't hard to execute. I think it was super cool though, and I want more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes sense in the universe why they would use Black Cat to steal something. So that makes sense. But I kind of thought that she was going to be. I didn't think she was going to be in this game. So it was on one hand kind of a nice surprise to see her. But then it was like, all right, I'm just here to now really leave for good. So it was like for Black Cat it wasn't. I didn't really think it added much to the game.
Speaker 1:But yeah, tying it into the Doctor Strange stuff and getting the like the little note from Wong at the end when you're done using the teleporter thing. And then of course there was the whole power of the PS5 moment where you're just like flying through Antarctica or wherever you get teleported. So those kind of moments were cool. They like to give us these little teases. We had the line about the Avengers in the first game. You have obviously like the Wakandan MSC and Daredevil's law firm and stuff like that in the city and then you just get just like another half step more here with actually seeing some Doctor Strange magic and then Wong actually kind of communicating with Miles a little bit and it's like, are they going to try it. Will they just keep doing these little Easter egg not things? Are they going to ever go a little bit further? We'll have to wait and see, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they really leaned into it. Like you said, in the first game it was kind of like, yeah, these things exist, but you know they're on the West Coast, they're doing their own thing. But yeah, for them to fully commit to it was awesome. You know, seeing the note and then the port and jumping through the portals was really really cool as well. I don't know if I want a Doctor Strange game. I would like to see maybe a team up with the Insomniac Spider-Man, but I don't know about a full on gameplay as far as that goes. You know, obviously Wolverine is coming. We'll see how that ties in, but I don't think they've ever really been committed to creating a gaming cinematic universe, which I think is a good thing. We don't need any more universes, so but it was awesome to see like, like I said, the note pop up was a really really cool touch.
Speaker 1:And it goes to show you, like, where we are as far as nerd stuff. Because if that had happened in a Spider-Man game, like, say, spider-man 2 that came out, you know, on the GameCube or whatever me as a kid I'd be like who's Doctor Strange, who's Wong? Like why is Spider-Man using magic and teleporting around? Yeah, exactly so, like the fact that Insomniac can just do this now and people get it and it's a cool thing that happens, I think just kind of goes to show where we're all at as far as our Marvel knowledge because of the MCU.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know there were a lot of different Easter eggs that kind of played their way through the entire story. So bringing it, bringing it back with, with Craven, and you know, obviously Felicia Hardy gets away. But then we move on right and there are other characters Tombstone, quittenbeck and Kurt Connors makes an appearance in this game and we then start to kind of transition into two sets of storylines where we are dealing with Kurt Connors what's going on with him, why Craven's after him, what Craven's going to do to him and then there's the introduction of the symbiote suit in the form of Harry, and then he surprises us in the Agent Venom outfit. How are you guys feeling, phil? We'll kind of throw this to you to start.
Speaker 3:How are you guys starting to feel when you started to see that? Because when that happened I just kind of assumed Harry was not going to be Venom and that it would be another character. I was theorizing at this point that it might be Craven and I just thought from a physical standpoint that that was going to happen. Because again, harry is like playing a secondary superhero and this is where I felt like Miles felt really far from the story. But, phil, where did you kind of land at this point in the game, when it came to that story beat.
Speaker 2:I actually forgot Tombstone is in this. I forgot you like save him from Craven in that little bit. But yeah, it was. I remember you texting me and being like, so we know for sure Harry isn't Venom. And I was like, do we? I don't, I don't believe, I don't think that that's the case whatsoever.
Speaker 2:I mean, the Craven theory isn't bad, but I didn't feel that way, honestly, because of what was happening. I thought maybe, maybe the Peter thing the Peter theory was was even going to happen at some point. But yeah, for him to be this overzealous, like helper, like sidekick, I think was again in line with the the Harry that we got again really just eager to help out. He's so happy that, even though all this terrible stuff is going on, I was just very, very confusing. But I do think that Miles is separated from that point on the story on purpose. Obviously he's still in high school, he's still obviously very much traumatized by what happened with Mr Negative and his dad, as one would be. And I think at that point focusing on Peter and Harry was a good call. And then, as you see, obviously Peter and Harry get closer and closer as they've reunited, then pulling Miles back in and missing his mentor and all that kind of stuff. I think worked pretty well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think for me, as I'm sitting here thinking about the story as a whole, there are some really big awesome moments and set pieces and things that happen in this game that I loved and I've always kind of been a fan of Venom and the Black Suit, spider-man and that kind of arc. But I think the way they did it there's just something Like the characters were making dumb decisions, and this was one of them where it is kind of funny and entertaining to see Harry show up and be this like goofy sidekick and like fighting alongside him was pretty fun. But Peter literally just got done dealing with Dr Octavius, like losing his mind and destroying the city and trying to kill him because of this like chip in his brain. He's just going to let his best friend, who just showed back up with this experimental suit, like go out on missions and stuff with him.
Speaker 1:Doesn't that seem a little bit like reckless little dumb, considering everything you know? You know you don't know anything about this suit or the technology or what's giving him this power. He doesn't know and you're just both kind of like well, that's weird. I guess you can be a superhero too. It's like I know why we had to do it to get from point A to point B. It just wasn't. It wasn't my favorite route that we took, I guess.
Speaker 2:An insanely dangerous situation as well when they're trying to break out Tombstone, like with the lava falling. Yeah, he could have. He should have died multiple times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've never done this before and you've been in like a. Now we have to watch you and fight these guys.
Speaker 2:Exactly Like yeah, You've been in a tank for how.
Speaker 1:Who knows how long. And now you're back, you know, using your legs again, and now, immediately, you're going to jump into this situation with me.
Speaker 2:You had a cane a month ago. If only there was a more experienced Spider-Man in this city that we could lean on here. My important question is did you guys do all of the rides so you fought in the Hat at?
Speaker 3:the amusement park.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, I did do all of the rides. That was the best suit. Why didn't we get hats?
Speaker 2:It's a great question.
Speaker 1:Did you guys like that section where you're like walking around the carnival and doing the rides and they're all like bantering about the good old days and stuff?
Speaker 2:I felt like maybe went on a little too long. Yeah, it's too long, I didn't mind it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I also thought that that was one of those examples we talked about this on the spoiler-free side where I thought they somewhat earned that relationship between the three. We got to really spend some time yes, was some of it forcible time towards the end of it, for sure and then all the craziness happens. But you know, at that point they're doing the Emily May Foundation together, Harry's like fully integrated back into their lives. So it did feel like they needed something to kind of justify all of that and I feel like that's what the carnival really stood for. And then they just kind of go off the rails a little bit with the agent Venom stuff. And you know, Miles, during all this time, is working on his essay. He's dealing with the fact that his mom's going to be dating again. So you know, he's got bigger fish to fry. I guess he couldn't make it. Yeah, he's got, he's a, he's got a lot of stuff to do.
Speaker 2:He's hanging out with with Genki and learning ASL with his girlfriend, and then you know all that stuff.
Speaker 1:So you know he's busy, he's got stuff going on Well, and that's another one of the things about the story that kind of just like would bug me was like Miles wanted to be involved. He, you know he would call Peter and be like hey man, what's going on, do we? You know we need to do some training or whatever. And Peter kept sidelining him and not like explaining what was going on and you could just kind of see.
Speaker 1:To me it felt very obvious. You could see the like Domino's being set up in this story and then you knew when they were going to get toppled over and then you knew what was going to happen when they got toppled over. Whereas what I appreciated so much about the first game was that they kind of took all these familiar characters and they kept making me guess like, oh, are we going to get the traditional dock-ock thing here? Like they keep making like I don't know if that's where we're headed, whereas this one was like, yeah, they changed who is Venom, but I could, I still knew who Venom was going to be pretty much immediately.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and maybe I didn't want it to be Harry at some point, but yeah, that's probably it.
Speaker 3:It did fit with the story. So, like, I guess it made sense. I guess, like, when Venom is, you know, when the symbiote embodies him the first time, he wants to be this hero, so that's why he kind of looks that way, and then when we get later, obviously he wants to look like Venom. So it's pretty fine, I think it's. It was a good story beat, it made sense.
Speaker 3:But you know, we kind of step away from Harry a little bit when they're dealing with all this stuff with Connors and eventually we end up getting the symbiote over to Peter. And this is after Peter is essentially dead, going to die or on the, you know, the verge of death, and the symbiote transfers over to Peter. This is where we then get this whole kind of collage of Miles coming back into the fray, harry taking a back seat. We're getting the symbiote suit. So, andrew, starting with you, how did it feel with that story, kind of starting to make his transition you kind of mentioned, you know, a little predictable. It goes in that direction. How did it feel going through the gameplay, at least with the symbiote suit for the first time?
Speaker 1:I don't know how you can sit there and just skip over the fact that you had to infiltrate Craven's base as Mary Jane using her little stun gun that they gave her to make her sections be a little bit more.
Speaker 2:We have to talk about the main character of the game, that's right, it is the most overpowered character.
Speaker 3:I made a mistake here. I made a mistake. This is MJ's Spider-Man 2. Well then, before we get to the symbiote suit, which you know nobody's interested in talking about MJ's mission and the city, did you guys know that New York is twice as big?
Speaker 1:We do now.
Speaker 3:Well, let's talk about MJ's missions, because I know this is going to come up several times. So this first one. I mean it was much more interesting, right? Like at least the first two, no.
Speaker 1:I think that gameplay wise it was a lot more enjoyable. I felt like they were faster paced. They didn't last as long I didn't ever fail one. The stealth, like the enemies weren't hard enough that they were frustrating. I think it just got silly towards the end of the game when you're still playing these MJ missions and the situations that she's in and it's like really Seriously like there's the one where Peter's like starting to lose it and it's kind of like almost a little bit horny, like he's chasing you through the tunnel, through the tunnel. That was pretty cool. That was like tense and it made sense and it played off their relationship. But then when she's literally like walking through this apocalyptic situation with her stun gun and it's like come on, why did we? Why is she such a main character in this story? Like I understand her relationship to the other characters and she can still be a great supporting character. Why do we have to play her and why is it so much?
Speaker 2:And she's still and she's also a very important character. Like we totally get that. She can be integral to the story without this and, yes, it is more enjoyable, but it doesn't mean that I wanted to do it. You know, I know the one of the developers was making rounds and, like you know, you say like I don't give a shit if MJ is OP, you should, because it's kind of dumb.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's kind of. It kind of breaks the immersion, like Eric was talking about, where you know, we didn't really experience any of that in the first two games. And then again you give the way that you tie it in and make her stronger as you give her a taser Like come on man and what.
Speaker 1:There was some throwaway line about like because where were they during miles? They were off on some or no? She had left at the end of Spider-Man one to or maybe isn't the DLC she went to she went to where was it?
Speaker 2:and trained with. What's her face with Sable? Yeah, so they they.
Speaker 1:They give like a throwaway line about like wow, I'm glad I kept this gun that Sable gave me after she trained me, or whatever. And and then you're supposed to believe like, oh, now she's basically like a stealth agent for my father's eye.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly so it just they kind of. It was almost like they heard the feedback from the players of about the first game and they're like, no, you just don't get it. And they like, double down with Mary Jane and they're like this time she's going to have a taser, okay, since gamers have to have a gun, or whatever it's like you know, and.
Speaker 2:I don't know you know, in the office where Michael is dating Pam's mom and he's like well, I'm going to date your mom harder. That's what they did with Mary Jane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, what did you think, eric? Did you, did you like the Mary Jane sections?
Speaker 3:I liked it until the end, which when we get there you know we're going to all bitch and moan about it, so I was going to kind of like rewind time.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 3:I didn't know how passionate we were going to be about.
Speaker 1:We're boiling over here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we had this, it has been about an hour and a half We've been talking about.
Speaker 2:We kind of lost over it.
Speaker 3:My, my understanding CS Peter can do symbiote stuff. I guess that's cool. Is how did you guys react to that that initial gameplay? I know they showed some of it, yeah. I think playing it was a totally different experience of viewing it.
Speaker 1:It was. It was awesome. I mean, this is kind of the the fantasy of the black suit and I think it unlocked like a side of Peter that we needed to balance his combat sections out with Miles, because up until that point, like Peter had the iron spider arms and he had like a few little moves that he could do, that we're OK, but it was not as fun as Miles with his venom powers and so getting the symbiote abilities made Peter a lot more like three dimensional, a lot more fun to play in combat, and I think Yuri Lowenthal, who voices him, did an excellent job at just being a dick. But like I don't know if I'm just getting older in this story just hasn't evolved enough over time or if what it was, but like it was just so frustrating listening to him interact with other characters and I know that's the point, but it was like, oh my gosh, dude, the lizard conversations were brutal man, like he went in on Connors.
Speaker 2:That was yeah, yeah, like you said, yuri is doing a great job, so he's doing his. He's doing what he's supposed to do.
Speaker 1:He did.
Speaker 1:I do think it was fun to hear that side of Peter like just being so angry, but I found myself wanting to progress the story to get past that as soon as possible, like I was.
Speaker 1:I didn't do any side quests, I didn't do anything, I was just mainlining the game because I was like I need to get Peter Parker back and I think that's probably the point and they have some surprises about that for you as the player around the corner and ultimately going into this game, what I really wanted from it and what I think it delivered on and what we're going to talk about here in a little bit, is the Peter Parker starting to lose to the symbiote and Miles having to bring him back.
Speaker 1:I knew that's something we haven't really seen too much in mainstream Spider-Man media because we don't really get Miles and Peter Parker together like this very often. And so having Miles being a Spider-Man during this part of Peter's you know his career, his life which is one of the most iconic Peter Parker Spider-Man moments. I was really excited to see what they did with that relationship and that dynamic and I think that you know that part of it was cool Just playing as Peter Parker while he was being mean, being the bad guy, I was like man, I got to get Peter back. This is he's. He's just causing too much damage to all these people around him.
Speaker 2:So mean that, even even to the people that, like he is saving, like he is, he's just being a dick. But, like you said, it's the ultimate like just dream to run around in that black suit, especially when you first get it and get to use those symbiote powers and you know, eric and I have always enjoyed portraying the villain, even in going down that path in gaming. So to have those powers that were incredibly strong was was awesome and, yeah, it really gives you that sense of being overpowered right away and that's exactly how it should have been.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it won't. It won't be the first time or it won't be the last time. I should say that we're going to talk about how much fun it is playing as a symbiote character, so we'll get to that here in a minute. One thing I want to mention is that immersion piece that we talked about. So before we get further into the story, I was curious if you guys felt this way, because once Peter gets the symbiote suit, I felt a little bit of the immersion go away in several fronts Story wise and I guess it kind of was funny.
Speaker 3:But like when the foundation is getting just fucking destroyed and annihilated, he like makes this like bear joke In the symbiote suit and like he still has that like funny Spider-Man personality and I felt like I don't know. There were a lot of moments like that. Then later on in like side missions and things like that, like it didn't translate that he was like he would be making a joke as I'm swinging to a mission where he's about to tell Harry to you know, pop some more pills. It didn't really fit. Did you guys feel that at all or did you feel like it worked? I don't know if it's a nitpicky thing that I just have. But I felt like once he got into the symbiote there was some inconsistency in the character as far as that delivery and that performance. And I don't think it's the voice actors fault, I think it's the games.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there was.
Speaker 1:Just there was something off about the the black suit and that's why I was saying I don't know if it's just that the story, I just don't enjoy it as much because it is basically the same story every time when he gets the black suit.
Speaker 1:But that was kind of why I just I mainlined that section to try to get to move past it as soon as possible, because it didn't fit the immersion for this Peter Parker to be stopping random crimes or saving people or whatever, because it was just like there was some like dissonance between some of the things you could do and what his personality was doing at the time and some of the remarks and things he was saying. So for me, because I just kind of like powered through the story at that point, I didn't really notice like too much, but there was just something about it where I was like I'm not enjoying this as much as I thought I would, or I'd hope to. The gameplay is fun, but Peter's driving me crazy. Maybe that was intentional, like you're not supposed to like him when he's like this. So yeah, there was something there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think that I noticed too much. I think what that probably was is the real Peter is in there. It's just that the symbiote is obviously doing its best to completely take over who he is, but his personality is still shining through at certain points. So I didn't think about it really too much. But yeah, it is interesting that, like again, this whole multi-million dollar building is just being absolutely just destroyed and they're not really doing too much in terms of like trying to preserve it either. It's just like well, it's gone now. You know, I mean, I know that the Osborns have a lot of money, but like taking it like that, it can't be like minor. They don't even really mention it again after.
Speaker 3:It's just completely level, yeah no, and Norman Osborn plays like this very standoffish role in this game and I understand you know that's obviously going to likely change in the next one, but I would have liked to see a little bit more of him instead of him. What we do get we kind of transition as this as this transition between Peter and Harry is happening, we then get a transition over to Miles part of the story where he's really coming to grips about Lee and that character being brought in, mr Negative being brought back in. They have to fight, and then there's this whole kind of sequence. Before we get to the Miles and Peter thing, there's this whole sequence with Mr Negative that I'm curious how you guys felt gameplay wise, how that played in, because they do it multiple times with that character.
Speaker 3:So, phil, how did that sequence when Miles and Lee are fighting, and then it kind of just we go into this whole new atmosphere of the game. How did that go for you? Did you like that? Was it just kind of something you had to fight through? How did you feel?
Speaker 2:Are you referring to? Like going into the like his subconscious? I get called the negative zone.
Speaker 3:I guarantee you there's a 75 percent chance. That's what it's called in real life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought it was fine because, again, I'm really buying into this Miles Morales quite a bit and he's going to be our Spider-Man going forward.
Speaker 2:And you know, one of the biggest things that's most popular about Spider-Man, you know, no matter who it is is there always a very relatable character and I think a lot of people can relate to this Miles, as he is still dealing with grief, like he has incredible responsibility, obviously, but like that doesn't take away from the fact that he is still dealing with what's going on.
Speaker 2:Obviously he still has residual stuff with his uncle Aaron and the prowler stuff that's still going on in his head. So I think it was very, very important to show that he was still dealing with that and, more importantly for him, for us, to see that he was able to get over it as well. I think it was a really big step for him in again becoming our Spider-Man, because that's what he is going to be. So for him to go through that journey, I think was fine. I did have some difficulty at points navigating it, but again, I think that's just a gameplay thing. So it wasn't the easiest thing to get through as far as gameplay wise, but story wise, I enjoyed the portions where we are getting to see Miles really grow up like right before us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gameplay wise, I think you did something similar to that as Peter in the first game and I think also it reminded me of the Scorpion sections in the first game where you're like hit with his venom and you're like kind of floating in space or whatever. It was also kind of similar to the Mysterio challenges, except they were a little bit smaller scale, you weren't traveling as much, you were just fighting in most of them. So, gameplay, they were fine.
Speaker 1:I liked this part of Miles' story. Miles kind of had a much more traditional like year one Spider-Man story in this game. It was dealing with the loss, dealing with, you know, some internal conflict, trying to balance family and Spider-Man stuff. Like it very much felt like the early on Spider-Man struggles, the kind of classic story that we get most of the time when we consume Spider-Man media, and so I liked that. I appreciated that. About the Miles side of this game, I loved everything that happened with his family, like their dynamic and interactions, and his cast of characters was great and I liked the conflict with Mr Negative. I was again pretty sure where it was going to go and how it was going to resolve, but it was still one of those things that was really satisfying and fulfilling to actually see happen. It was like, okay, yeah, I kind of saw that coming, but I'm glad that it happened.
Speaker 3:I think you know we talked about Mr Negative not being my favorite part of the first game. I definitely think he's a much more interesting character here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think it works in the overall theme of the story. So we then get over, of course, once you know Miles basically saves Lee from Craven, we then have Peter versus Miles, which I think was a ton of fun, and then we get into the third act of the game. So before we really get into that final act here, phil, andrew, anything you guys want to say about your experience or what your thoughts were on the actual Peter Miles altercation, which I think we all saw coming. But once we got into it, I know for me I was like I don't want to play against this thing, that I've been having fun completely destroying enemies with for the last few hours.
Speaker 2:Remember when, in the last of his parts, you have to fight Ellie Like, oh shit, I've been upgrading her this whole time, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, like I said, this was the moment that I was waiting for. Story wise, I think they nailed it. As far as the setting, the themes, peter is just unhinged. At this point, miles is trying to bring him back from the brink. This was also probably the most frustrating boss fight for me, outside of venom. At the end, I failed this boss fight probably a good six or seven times, I don't it.
Speaker 1:Just I had to get to the point where, like I was saving certain abilities and saving certain gadgets for later in the fight, I got to the point where I was sitting up and hunched over in my, you know, pro gamer mode, Like I was.
Speaker 1:I had to really take this fight seriously, to the point where it was getting frustrating and kind of taking away from what this epic set piece moment was supposed to be. But ultimately, though, like it was incredible, just it was exactly like I said, what I was hoping we were going to get and what I thought we would get bringing these two characters into this in be out conflict, was Peter was going to be right on the brink of just losing himself, and it was going to be up to Miles to bring him back, and it was, you know, talking about it from Miles perspective, him having to. He's almost kind of doing what Peter couldn't do in the first game when he couldn't save Dr Octavius. You know, miles is dealing with his mentor here and he's slipping into villainy and Miles is the only person that can bring him back. And I thought it was really well done. It was a challenging boss fight but the setting set piece their conversation that they're yelling at each other back and forth throughout the fight. All that was like 10 out of 10.
Speaker 2:And, if I recall correctly, it's fresh off of a Craven fight, isn't it? Don't you just, didn't you just previously fight with Craven as the symbiote and the symbiote suit? Does that remind me of misremembering that?
Speaker 3:If I remember correctly, Peter almost kills Craven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Miles comes into the he's like don't do this man.
Speaker 2:And then Craven gets away and then, yeah, so, yeah, the boss fights in this were excellent. I like that. A lot of them had multiple portions as well, so, but yeah, this also kicked the crap out of me. We talked about the parrying in the first part of this episode, in the non-spoiler section. You know, having to continue to get you, continue to get used to that, even though I, like I said I was a little bit more comfortable than I normally am with that type of mechanic.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, the dialogue, the you know, using all the abilities that you have stored up to and upgraded till that point Awesome, you know, knowing when to use the bell, like I think that's kind of what you're referring to. Andrew is like you got to make sure you use it at the right time, don't waste it. And then also him having to wear with all as far as Peter to web it up, and the you know awesome, just an awesome section. And yeah, that's like I said, that's not really something you see in Spider-Man media. So, to throw miles into that conflict, and I love that you parallel it to the Doctor Octavius relationship yeah, I didn't even think about that. So, yeah, really, really well done.
Speaker 1:And I think they were able to let Peter get a little bit more unhinged in this story because they had miles to bring him back, because usually it's Peter Parker versus the symbiote and Peter kind of waking up and realizing I have to get this thing off of me, I have to figure out how to get rid of it, and you know he usually goes up into a bell tower or something and ends up piling up, he finds Toe for Grace, and then you know it's, and then that's it Exactly.
Speaker 3:And all downhill.
Speaker 1:But in this game because Miles is in the picture, like Peter was. Literally like if that suit had stayed on him that night he would have been gone. Probably it would have been Venom, it would have been the symbiote had taken over. But Miles is able to pull him back from the brink, which you can't really. Let Peter get that far gone and then say, oh, but he figured it out, and you know he figured it out and got it off in the nick of time.
Speaker 2:He's good now.
Speaker 1:You were able to see like the darkest murder what, murder what murder. What murder?
Speaker 2:He was the best.
Speaker 3:Spider-Man around so good. I think you guys make a lot of good points. I personally had already upgraded Miles pretty heavily because I was like I'm not Peter's got the symbiote, I'm not going to upgrade anything on his end. So I had Miles ready to go. I think I got it in about like two attempts, maybe three. That was definitely a difficult boss fight, but the most enjoyable one, which shouldn't be surprising, is after the symbiote is now, you know, getting ready to be destroyed.
Speaker 3:We end up playing as Venom and I know for me this was a dream come true. I will say this also when we talk about, like the Doctor Strange elements. I could easily see how a Hulk game could work indirectly, which was kind of cool. But I wanted to talk to you guys about not only the transition into playing Venom, but then getting Venom versus Craven, which I would not have imagined. I didn't know we were going to play as him, let alone get a boss fight. So, andrew, how did that experience go for you? Again, I'm a little biased. I loved it because that's like my favorite character in this universe.
Speaker 1:But how did you feel it was awesome. I was like, oh, we're straight up doing the thing. We're playing as Venom. It's one of those things where you switch to another character and say, ok, what do my buttons do now? So there's a little bit of figuring out what you're supposed to be doing. But I mean, he was simple to play, as I didn't, you know, fail out or anything. As Venom, you just got to be this unstoppable force.
Speaker 1:I like what you said about the Hulk comparison, because back in the day they had ultimate Hulk or incredible Hulk, ultimate destruction, and that game was incredible. And then in the ultimate Spider-Man game, where you got to play as Venom, he played a lot like that Hulk, with the big jumps and the stuff like that. So it would be interesting to see kind of a modern flip on that. But yeah, playing as Venom is great. I also wasn't really expecting. I was wondering how we were going to wrap up the Craven storyline and move into Venom and they did it so brutally. They did it so like I was. These games are rated T and this was probably about as far as they could possibly go, but like Venom just kills Craven.
Speaker 2:Is it a boss fight really? Because you kicked the shit out of him.
Speaker 1:You just like you beat him to death and then like it all culminates in Venom, like literally just biting his head off and you see like the blood drip down and it's like, damn, there was some intense stuff in the first game but nothing like I mean with Venom. It's cool to see them go this far because he is that villain. You know, he is just I mean, he's not Carnage, who is like completely unredeemable there's like the anti hero angle to Venom but like he is still just this brutal, unstoppable force.
Speaker 2:You know what it reminded me of just now thinking about it, because, like you, you're just so surprised you get to go this Venom route. It just reminds me of Attack on Titan. We're doing this now. What are we going to do with Venom? They just they throw you into. He's got that brutal finishing move where he just breaks the guy.
Speaker 3:That's what I knew. I was like oh my.
Speaker 2:God, yeah, it's awesome, like you said, definitely Hulk vibes jumping from from platform to platform to as you're getting out of Oz corp and then, yeah, going to that boss fight. Yeah, I could certainly play a spin off DLC. I'm interested to see how this conversation, like at the end of this conversation, like do we think Venom's coming back? Like what's going to happen with that specific character, especially with, you know, with Carnage being heavily teased and alluded to, because we're going to get that pretty soon. But, yeah, an awesome set piece and they nailed the brutality of that character. So, yeah, it just makes it hard to believe they haven't been able to do that in two movies. We got it in like five minutes in the video game, but we also don't get to play as the character in a movie, so I guess it's a little different. But, like, come on, venom's cool, it shouldn't be this hard.
Speaker 3:It really shouldn't be. And then you know Venom this version at least, is just able to completely take over the city. I mean, jesus Christ, where are the Avengers during a situation like this?
Speaker 2:West Coast man they're pissing, I guess.
Speaker 3:So they're no daredevil, know nothing. So we're, we're struggling here, myles still working on that paper somewhere, and and so everything just kind of starts to unwind. So obviously New York starts to get infected with the symbiotes. They're all over the place. And then we get our first look back into Peter, back to normal Boring Spider-Man gameplay versus.
Speaker 3:Boring, boring versus scream, which I thought was a nice addition. It being MJ is interesting. I've always liked the look of scream. I'm not going to act like I know much about the backstory of the symbiote character, but what did you guys think about that whole angle? For me, I did find the gameplay to be boring because I don't like Peter's non symbiote combat, and then I really thought there was an opportunity here to really put a rift between these two characters. I thought that's where we were going with some of the beats, but then this made them like closer together. Afterwards I really thought they could have used this element to kind of split these two characters apart, which is typically what happens between MJ and Peter.
Speaker 2:They don't think you would bond over both being overtaken by an alien goo. You don't think you'd bond with somebody.
Speaker 3:after that they said some mean stuff together to each other. I think they actually meant it but they kind of gloss over it. But what did you guys think about the combat and then the story beat of MJ turning into the symbiote to start that fight?
Speaker 1:It was thematically very cool. I liked scream. I liked fighting against her. In this instance, MJ was yelling at Peter about all his insecurities and all his failures. I am glad they didn't drive a wedge between them again, because it just gets exhausting after a while. They were broke up at the end of the first one, then they kind of got back and was rocky and then they decided to commit to each other. I'd love to just see that last for a little while before we drive another wedge between them.
Speaker 1:It was interesting going back to Peter's base movesets and having to do this fight or, I guess, his base gadgets and stuff. I was not expecting this. This was a pretty big surprise for me. First of all, the city being as jacked up as it was, I was like, oh, we're getting a Web of Shadows sequel here. It was the only other Spider-Man game where you see the city just get that completely screwed up, which was another cool thing they did in this game. They did it with Sandman too. Even late game. You'd see sand left over from that fight, which was really cool. But yeah, just fighting Scream was a really fun fight. It was probably one of the least challenging fights, I think, so it was fun to just kind of be able to absorb what was happening story-wise and not have to focus on being a parry god. Yeah, overall I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think in an age where pretty much everything gets spoiled, for that character show up was pretty neat. Going back to the city, which is twice the size of the city in the first game, in case you guys didn't know. It's kind of interesting, eric, that we talk about how the city is all kinds of messed up and we just talked about prototype a couple of months ago. Like that's exactly what happens in the prototype game. So, yeah, really neat again.
Speaker 2:Probably a Doctor Strange portal or two would have certainly helped. Maybe a Black Panther, maybe even a Daredevil would have. You think they would have at least woken up or showed up or something like that. But no, we know how that goes. But yeah, that I really enjoyed the scream fight and the, the appearance and, you know, just adding more characters to this universe, especially when you didn't expect it. But yeah, unless you're gonna in, like, include or introduce Gwen Stacy, I don't think there's any reason to drive a wedge between Peter and MJ, as we've seen that so many times. And at this point I'd much rather than focus on the relationship between Miles and Peter, and you know Peter and MJ to be relatively solid, which is pretty much what we get at the end of the game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I mean it sounds like going into this final fight. We might as well not even talk about Peter versus Venom, because I know you guys are really excited as they're trying to save the city. Mj is involved in the final battle of this, of this game, final act of this game, I should say so motorcycle and all yeah, there are a lot of things that happen. I forgot about the motorcycle so we're gonna just we're gonna try to contain this final piece to um to this.
Speaker 3:We'll start off here, then we'll get to the MJ combat that I know you guys are excited about, and then I guess we'll fit in. Peter, you know, in the fight against Venom we start off. We obviously get a uh, an interesting suit from Miles and then this kind of brings us into the rest of like this little act. How did you guys react to the Miles suit? Do you both hate it as much as the internet does?
Speaker 2:yeah, this is the suit that I was referring to, andrew. The internet hates this suit. Uh, a lot of a lot of you really hate it and a lot of this has to do?
Speaker 1:is it because his hair sticks out of the top? That's one reason.
Speaker 2:That's definitely one reason. But there's also a kind of a discourse about this spider man because he doesn't wear Jordans like I'm not even I'm not even getting, because this spider man in this game is sponsored by Adidas. There's a whole like Adidas store in Times Square and you know he doesn't have his like signature Jordans that like he has in the spider verse. So there is a whole internet discourse about how they don't like people don't like this Miles Morales solely because of what he is wearing. I'm not. I wish I was making this up, so yeah.
Speaker 2:I hadn't heard any of that yeah, I don't mind the suit it is. He talks about like going with a Miles Morales original, but he already did that in his own game. Like it came up with a Miles Morales original but I kept it on, you know, for the final act of the game, just because, again, story wise, that's what he had done. But I didn't hate it like a lot of people do, but it's certainly not something that I went back to like. He definitely has better suits, but, yeah, the internet hates this suit so I don't hate the suit.
Speaker 1:I did, you know, change into something else as soon as the the story beat was over. What I didn't like we kind of glossed over it. But like they give Peter his venom abilities back with the anti-venom suit and so you get the, the white kind of symbiote look. It's a really cool moment. Mr negative is kind of the the crux of what gives him that ability. So he's got this cool new white like symbiote suit. And then I guess they were like well, miles needs a cool suit too to finish the game off. And so Miles just like swings in and Peter's like, oh, dude, new suit. And Miles is like, yeah, man, and that's it.
Speaker 1:It's like there's no interesting backstory or reason why he has this suit. There's no, he didn't overcome anything, it didn't help him achieve any goal. It was just like oh, yeah, which. For me, who's been putting miles in a different suit like almost every other chapter. It's like I mean, peter's probably seen him in about 15 different suits at this point. So that was what bugged me about. It wasn't the what it looked like, necessarily. It was just like Miles had to have his cool endgame suit, but they didn't really explain it or justify it in any way no, they didn't at all.
Speaker 3:They were just like, hey, while you were being a dick, I got a new suit and I like Adidas now. So he was just pretty much. He was just pretty much. Uh, yeah, just there. And then it was such a weird like sequence of events, because that happens. Then we get MJ motorcycle motorcycle and all uh who gets to infiltrate the symbiote cave yeah, like the hive so how did you guys uh, andrew, starting with you how did you guys feel about this?
Speaker 3:I think we're all kind of alluded to it that this is where they went a little too far, and I would agree, considering I think the symbiote she faces was like maybe three times the size of enum, I don't remember, but I remember it being big and MJ feeling so small and unrealistic to take this thing down. So how'd you feel?
Speaker 1:well, we've. We've talked a lot about, you know, I would be cool to see a Doctor Strange game, or it'd be cool to, you know, see a Hulk or whatever. And uh, we don't need a Black Widow game because we played as her in this one. Uh, you get to just go in secret agent style, sneak around, you have your gun.
Speaker 1:It was already borderline, unbelievable, all the situations that MJ has been, and even in the first game, when she's just sneaking around, which is slightly more realistic to someone of like her, so you know, she's just a human then they give her training and a stun gun, and now all of a sudden she's got to be the third superhero. It's like why didn't they just go all the way and have a spider bite her or something, or like, give her some powers if we're gonna play it as her this much, because, yeah, literally again Peter, just putting her in this ridiculously unsafe situation. But I mean, she, she did it, she made it out, she, she saved the day. So, yeah, I I'm sure there would have been another way. They could have wrote it without her being the one to do the task, and it would have been fine. It just for some reason she had to be playable and she had to be like the third, you know point on this triangle of this team to make everything happen in this game and that symbiote you're alluding to.
Speaker 2:Eric kicks the shit out of you when you're a spider man. Yeah, so for her to just like dispatch it so easily. I was like you gotta be kidding me. You don't think that they would send Miles in with her into the like, the, the nest?
Speaker 2:he was busy symbiotes, like busy standing guard, stand guard for mj. If you're gonna send her in, then like help out. I mean that not even ganky on comms or anything like something, guy in the chair, nope, they just send her in with her with her gun and maybe some pepper spray. I don't know if she had any of that, but like yeah, for her to get in out of there with the, the item that they needed, like the whole cusp of this whole mission she needed to go get was wild. And again I think I get having a commitment to the game that you have developed and obviously they work their asses off to put this out. But again, don't be so aloof with this decision, because people don't like it and it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1:So that's certainly that kind of like rub me the wrong way, but I mean again, that's an unpicky thing, but like come on, man well as another one of those just immersion, breaking things like it doesn't make sense for people who have been through everything that Peter's been through through to put like the one person that he loves the most that he still has left alive in this situation. It just, it's like, yeah, I don't, I don't believe this. I see why we're doing it for story reasons or for gameplay reasons but it just it was one of those things I was like yeah, I this, this is taking me out of it keep Martin Lee around.
Speaker 2:If that's what you're gonna do, exactly you're like we'll bring you back later.
Speaker 1:Can you go into this cave and go get tombstone backs and him in there like yeah, anyone, somebody Mysterio like come on and a lot of stuff happens at the end of this game.
Speaker 3:Obviously, you know we reference the mr negative resurgence which gives Peter the anti, the anti-venom suit. Obviously, miles, it has a part to play there. We get the MJ mission, all of it, ultimately called to. You know it called it makes to the Peter and the venom fight. So I want to ask you guys Phil, we'll kind of start with you what did you think about this final boss fight? Again, this was something that incorporated multiple elements. I found myself using the gadgets a little more here. You've got like the multiple, like football fields or areas of locations you could swing to. So how did that all work for you? Did it pay off to be the final boss fight or was? Were there any elements you didn't like about it?
Speaker 2:no, I really enjoyed it again. This was another moment that kicked the crap out of me, took multiple, multiple tries and also, once again, using the environment and using the horns or whatever, or the you know the speakers, whatever it was, and then also him being able to spawn, you know more, more venom minions or whatever they were called, was, you know, certainly added to the difficulty again a lot of really good back and forth dialogue between the two characters as well. And for it to come back to the high school, you know, where they obviously bonded over many, many years and where he you know where Harry went through a whole bunch of trauma, obviously, and but also they had a lot of good times there, I think was a good setting. It is a little strange that, like, miles wouldn't be there, like again if, like you said earlier, eric, like I know it's a joke but like if only there was another capable superhero to help you out in this fight, to not make it so difficult.
Speaker 2:But I did enjoy it and it was very rewarding because it was so difficult and just kind of putting together everything and thank god, you know you get that anti-venom suit and get some of those powers back. You know it's to make it a lot more fun at the end as well. But yeah, definitely definitely challenging but enjoyable. At least that's what I thought.
Speaker 3:Andrew, what about you?
Speaker 1:yeah, I liked it. I liked it a lot. It was another fight that was very tough, like Phil was saying, having to manage the three areas because every so often Venom would basically just make one section like you could not stand there so you'd have to take the fight to another one. This game, if I had one complaint about, I liked the boss fights in general but they were really big on phases in this game and some of the boss fights just kept going and had more and more phases. And Venom was one of them, which I guess makes sense because he's at the end of the game.
Speaker 1:But Lizard was another one that just felt like it just kept going and going and going. So at a certain point I'm like can we just beat this guy already? Like we've already, we've changed locations, all this kind of stuff. But the fight itself, the struggle between, like Venom, harry and Peter, and all that, it was done really well. I liked the fight. It was challenging. You had to use every tool at your disposal as Peter Venom has like a second form at the end of this game that I don't know if I've ever seen before.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's like a thing in the comic books or with the character just bat Venom yeah, which he just grows wings and starts flying, and I was like I don't know how I feel about this.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna lie that scared me I, I yelped, I was. It's a pretty terrifying image, yeah it's it.
Speaker 1:I was like did we, did we go one step too far with this Venom? But it was like visually, just yeah, terrifying, like he was already a horrifying force to be reckoned with and now he can fly, yeah. But I thought the fight was good, the payoff was great. It was a, it was a strong ending between the spider men and and Venom and Harry and all that. It.
Speaker 3:Just, you know, this fight made me forget a little bit that I had just run through the caves as MJ well, that's a good thing and I do love that you brought up, you know, the lizard fight too, because now that I think about it, that fight and the Venom fight had, like not just one, but like two to three, too many sequences where, like you would do, like the same animation, it was the same counter, like it didn't really feel like it was necessary. So that is a good call out for sure. I think you know we've covered a lot of stuff in the game. I think this is a good pause point before we talk about the aftermath which is going to lead to, I think, as we wrap up the episode, discussions about what's to come.
Speaker 3:I think this is a great pause point to talk about anything else within the confines of the game that we didn't get to discuss during the spoiler free session. For example, there is an entire side mission with Yuri, who is the cop that was in the first one. We talked about how I didn't play the DLC, phil, you did so. You actually filled us in on a little bit of what happens there that plays a part here and leads to carnage, which I thought was interesting. So there's a lot of side missions and things that we could focus on. But I want to definitely discuss that one and any other side missions that caught your attention or you had a little displeasure with, but we're going to focus on Yuri Phil. How did you feel going into that? Did you expect that character to return in this one in such a big way?
Speaker 2:we'll go to you first yeah, definitely expected her to return, as you know. Then the DLC she is just obviously so upset. Also, it's kind of spoiled, I think in the in some of the trailers as well that she's been running around the city, is this vigilante and you know you also have a fight with her during that story beat as well, so you get to go up against her. It's also I'm surprised we didn't bring this up in the spoiler free discussion, like how cool it would be to run into the other spider-man or Yuri while you're fighting crime. That was also. That was like a really, really cool thing.
Speaker 2:But I thought I had messed up. Obviously you do mess up, but like when you didn't stop the train, I was like expecting the mission to start over and like, but obviously that's just what's supposed to happen. But yeah, I did again another thing where I did not expect any type of carnage reference and for them to go that route. Are they going to do you know, to get a little ahead of myself like, is it going to be a green goblin in carnage game in the third game or is it going to be DLC whatever? But yeah, it was certainly unexpected and I'm invested in that character with Yuri, I also love every time you go to try and high-fiver or give her a fist bump. She just wants no part of it as well. So really cool stuff, and you did not expect carnage whatsoever yeah, I liked seeing Yuri again.
Speaker 1:I I didn't really do that thread until like post main game, so it was a little bit jarring to kind of do it all in a row like towards the end of the game. I wish I would have kind of sought it out a little bit earlier, but I was just so invested in the main story. But I loved Yuri as a character in the first game. I love the, the DLC stuff, that like she went through, and so I was curious to see where they would pick that up. I didn't watch a bunch of the trailers and stuff so I didn't really have it spoiled for me. I think we even kind of talked about it a little bit on our first Spider-Man episode. But I'm curious to see what happens with her. She's a character that I am unfamiliar with. Her vigilante, all that it was kind of new to me, so it was fun to explore that kind of new character. And then, yeah, ending with the cult leader that you've been tracking down or whatever, being teased to become Carnage in the future. It's like I don't know if that's another one of those little like oh, in-universe nod like you know this character but he's not actually going to ever do anything, or if, yeah, he will come back in a big way and either maybe the DLC will focus on like Yuri again and you're trying to track down Carnage, or maybe it'll be the next game who knows? Maybe Insomniac doesn't even know yet.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that was a really cool quest line. It was probably like the biggest medius side quest thing in the game. There were other things that were telling stories or connected and like the Mysterio thing that was telling an overarching story, but the gameplay of it was combat rooms, whereas this felt like a little slice of DLC. It felt like a little side quest that you were going on that actually like lasted a while, whereas some of the other. There were a lot of other cool like side things you did, but they'd be like one-offs and this one felt like the only one that was like a true chain of missions that were all telling a story.
Speaker 2:Like the Chameleon thing and the Spider-Verse thing. You know, those are all basically like busy work. Essentially is what you're doing there.
Speaker 1:It was cool story context for why you were finding collectibles, which the Spider-Verse thing, I mean. Do you guys think that's just another little nod or is that going to actually amount to anything?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think they could go anywhere with that third movie man. It's so up in the air right now Also. Well, I guess it just could have happened before he met Miguel. Because he has met Miguel, he's in the movie, so you'd think he would know who that character is. So I assume this takes place before the events of that film. So that's just thinking too much into it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, it's probably just a little Easter.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm a huge proponent of go do that into the Spider-Verse game, like I love whenever I could turn on that anime. Although I will say in this game it was a little different to turn it on. It had to like you had to turn it on for both Peter and Miles, it couldn't just be one or the other. We're in the Miles game.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 3:Like if you switch to Peter and you kept those animations on, it would, I think, stick to Peter. We're in the Miles game. It was pretty seamless. It was like a suit feature that you could turn on or remove. I like that whole dynamic of how the character looks when it's swinging, when you're fighting in that into the Spider-Verse way. I would love an entire game like that. But I think you know the side missions were fun. I think it was a good time. There was a lot to be able to enjoy. We also had Phil back. I made sure to make a bullet point of this. We also got to do a little emotional one with the pigeons and the music.
Speaker 3:That was a good payoff, you get to hear when you know you've got that one, the pigeon guy character from the first game, and he just uh the pigeon guy character.
Speaker 2:That's his name.
Speaker 3:I forgot his name and he dies.
Speaker 1:Isn't it like Harold or something it?
Speaker 3:probably is Harold, and then he dies.
Speaker 2:There's a pigeon man in hey Arnold, remember that Probably the same guy.
Speaker 1:The pigeon mission, that that did something for you guys.
Speaker 2:I liked it. I thought it was sweet considering how much I hated them the pigeon missions in the first game it was nice to get some kind of payoff. That could do something.
Speaker 1:It was just so, I don't know, silly I guess. I mean the whole pigeon thing is just, but like, was it the music? It was the music. It was Peter Parker taking the pigeons to go live somewhere safe, somewhere happy, and they're just like oh, we'll follow you, here's a park.
Speaker 3:It's literally your, your friendly neighborhood, spider man.
Speaker 2:It's your whole life.
Speaker 1:And then, yeah, body it. And then, as soon as, like, I started talking to him, I was like, oh, he's going to die. And then, yeah, I come back and there's the ambulance. It just felt so like abrupt, out of nowhere. It was just like one mission with this guy in this game and it's him dying. And I was like is this a paying homage to a voice actor? Is this doing like, is this relating to something else outside the game that I don't know about? Like I felt like I was missing context for it, but I get what they were going for. I think the side mission that really got me that I thought was super cool, was the Haley mission.
Speaker 2:I hated that mission. Yeah, I was really I knew, I knew, I hated it, I was waiting for it to say that that's so interesting.
Speaker 1:I didn't like if it had gone on any longer, if they had made me play as her more than once, I would have been like why are we doing this Again? It's the Mary Jane thing. Why are we doing this in a Spider-Man game? But just, I thought it was a really cool use of like the haptics and the controller and all the like, the way the emojis would pop up to kind of express how she was feeling and the fact that like the world felt so different playing as her with like losing that sense of hearing and exploring just that little alley as her with dealing with the. I was like this is really unique and interesting and kind of a fun breath of fresh air. I played it, you know, in my platinum hunt. So it was like endgame stuff.
Speaker 1:I wasn't like deviating from the main story to do it. I was like, yeah, it was a nice little interesting thing that they did in this game. Now, if it had been something they made me keep doing over and over, I probably would have been frustrated by it. But I thought it was a nice little, a little not a cool little thing that they included and I just like Haley as a character and how they integrate her into the world and her relationship with Miles and Genki and all that. I think that she's a really a fun, cool character to have and I think it's cool how they approach her as far as like representation and how the world interacts with her and who she is in this universe. So it was fun to do that quick little mission as her. Yeah, it's a character.
Speaker 2:I absolutely love her and I think it was just a continued frustration of being taken away from being Spider-Man, which is what I want to do in the game, and I'm pretty sure I also tackle that after I had been the main story. So you know, it might have been a little frustration there, but I'd like to pigeon mission. It definitely is a little silly, but I thought the you know the music swelling. I thought that was kind of fun. But there's some interesting stuff in here. But yeah, those ones, I thought they were fine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they were fine. They were fine. How about the?
Speaker 1:Mysterio one being the just his like the two beat his assistant trying to steal money or whatever. I was like what a silly payoff for this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you get a cool suit out of it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it was a cool suit, but I didn't mind the Mysteriums but no, I enjoyed that character.
Speaker 3:So I wish we did more with that character personally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's not in the first game, is he?
Speaker 1:This is the first time we saw him, but it seemed like in universe. It was not the first time. No, no, definitely not.
Speaker 2:Also it was funny how, like I think, I really do think, based off of like just their interviews, that they forgot that Sandman was in a vial in the first game, that Peter had him stored away. Oh, really. And then, yeah, it's one of the collectibles in the backpacks is that Sandman is in a vial. And then, because they were interviewing them and they were like, yeah, he's out, they were probably like, oh shit, forgot about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Sandman side quests were pretty interesting too. It was another one that was like this is really predictable. I kind of see where we're going with this.
Speaker 2:But was the chameleon? Was that chameleon? Was that the payoff for those was the chameleon side quest, I believe. So you go to that apartment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember going to the chameleon apartment. I don't remember if it's no, no, no, no, no, Sandman.
Speaker 2:That was the birds. That was the metal. The metal. Yeah, that was the metal. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, sandman was payoff.
Speaker 1:It was his daughter, like he was being hunted by Craven and everything.
Speaker 1:And so you're kind of piecing together. If you're doing his side quest, as you're playing through the game, you're kind of piecing together about him being hunted by Craven as you're learning, like who Craven is, and it kind of it's a cool kind of side by side thing, and then ultimately you like check on his daughter and make sure that she's safe and you let him know. Also, he's like lost his mind because he's so fractured. So as you're breaking the cubes, you're helping restore his mind or something which whatever.
Speaker 2:So along those lines.
Speaker 1:But it was. It was an interesting twist on. You know, Sandman's whole deal is his daughter, so it was like I know that's where we're headed with this.
Speaker 3:But and there's a lot of elements we could continue to talk about when it comes to Spider-Man 2. But I think, as we are wrapping up, I think it's a great place to recap the end of the game and just kind of talk about what's going to happen next. We have been actively talking about Spider-Man for well over two hours. Maybe we're getting close, closer to three. It feels like pushing that three pushing that three crossover event baby.
Speaker 3:So let's talk about in the aftermath. Norman Osborn, very oddly in my opinion, blames the Spider-Man for what's happened to Harry and he prepares the G serum. Obviously obviously preparing for what's going to happen there. In the third game. Mary Jane quits her job, starts a podcast that Pitch Pitter right.
Speaker 2:Just what we need More podcast.
Speaker 3:Celebrity podcaster. So she moves in with Peter. Peter, obviously, is taking a break from being Spider-Man, so Miles is now going to be our main protector of New York City. Norman, in a post credit scene, visits Octavius, who will not reveal the identity of Spider-Man, but says he's writing his final chapter. And then it rolls to the credits. And in the post credit scene we also have Miles meeting his mother's new boyfriend, albert Moon, and they introduce them to his daughter, cindy, which is a nod to the character silk, if I'm correct. So yes.
Speaker 3:A little recap there of how the game projected what's to come, what do you guys think about you know, some of those indications of where the game is going to go moving forward, and what do you guys want to see moving forward? Andrew, we're going to give that question to you first, as our guest.
Speaker 1:Have you guys heard the like, the interview quote of Brian into harbing like this next game will basically be our end game. You know, like, if, if, if this second game was Infinity War, this would be our end game, or whatever. So I'm, I'm, we're getting Doc Ock, he's coming back. We're getting Green Goblin, that's going to be it's. They're going to go out with a bang and like those are the two most iconic villains. They've dabbled with iconic villains.
Speaker 1:Obviously, doc Ock is in the first game, but they've also brought in some of these like lesser known, like Craven is really popular in the comics and stuff, but we have not seen him in any movies or anything like that. So Craven, mr Negative, some of these others that don't normally get the spotlight. So I think it's going to start out more focused on Miles, but obviously Peter's still going to be part of that story because this is his rogues gallery. I'm just curious to see, like, what they do with it all. And I also think that it's very interesting that we're getting a nod or an introduction of silk, with nothing indicating that Gwen or Spider Gwen is going to exist in this universe. They went silk, which I mean, I don't really know anything about silk. She's a card in Marvel Snap that moves around the locations.
Speaker 3:Feels pretty disrespectful to silk. I feel like she's got to have something more than I was just a card.
Speaker 1:I'm curious to learn more about her, because I don't know that much or really anything about her, except that she exists in the spider verse somehow. So will she actually be a player, like a main character in the next game? Who knows, she is pretty young in that post credit scene, if I'm remembering correctly. So I don't know. I'm excited to see what the next chapter holds. I'm very excited if they go. I mean we got Venom, that's a very classic story. We got Doc Ock, although it was told a little bit differently and they put some twists on it with, like killing Aunt May and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm I'm hoping we get like that classic Green Goblin, maybe even just like the full, true sinister six, you know, to put a nice cap and cherry on, like Peter's story, if this really is going to be like the last of the trilogy. And then maybe they focus more on Miles solo again. I don't know. I'm not sure what they're going to do. They're going to keep making Spider-Man games because they I mean, like I said in my episode, dirt reading that like intro blurb. They sell incredibly well. Sony's not going to stop making these games, but I am curious to see if they truly are sticking to this. Being a trilogy, that means that this like the final one of this story and I'm really excited to see, like, how they push the envelope from where they've been on the last two games.
Speaker 2:I just refused to believe that Harry's body can take any more serums, a symbiote, a serum, whatever it is he.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's going to be Harry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, god it is. Yeah, I don't think it's going to be him either. But like do they do hobgoblin? I hope that's not the case. I don't want to see that.
Speaker 1:But no, I think they've been like teasing or like reference there's been. This, yeah, just like Green Goblin has been like hanging over the franchise since the very beginning. Yeah, his absence has been so loud that I feel like that's just going to be the perfect big bang for this next game, you know.
Speaker 2:I agree, yeah, do they do another game in between, spider-man 3, like they did between one and two? Is that where you could implement, you know, a craven, a or not craven, I'm sorry a carnage or a chameleon? You know these, these villains that are, that are important, but you know more so in the deeper, in the Rose Gallery, maybe not so carnage, but you know how are they going to. If this is endgame, like you're going to fit in the Sinister Six, carnage and all these other characters you know be interesting, and then, like you said, implementing silk, like are they going to just keep adding another playable character each game? I mean it's doable. I mean we've seen, obviously, we've seen this. I mean Grand Theft Auto V did it pretty well with three playable characters.
Speaker 2:Obviously, the story is going to have to be a whole lot longer, which is fine. I mean we'll sign up for a longer game. I'm totally okay with that. So, yeah, a lot to look forward to. I guess I want to know do you guys think Venom is gone? Have we seen the last of that? If we're going to do carnage, are they going to bring Venom?
Speaker 1:back somehow. Oh yeah, Venom always comes back.
Speaker 3:Never dies.
Speaker 1:But the third playable character is going to be Rio. You're going to play as her in the next game. They're going to give her a stun gun and that's going to be.
Speaker 2:I was like who I was so confused for a second. Yeah, also, if I were Uncle Aaron I wouldn't give up my prowler stuff. Can I come up? Remember that one mission where he said he got to like watch Nick's games for free? Like I wouldn't give that up. That's worth a lot of money there, man, like oh yeah, but I wouldn't mind doing some prowler gameplay.
Speaker 2:I think that'd be fun, but we're asking for a lot here at this point with only maybe a full game and a spin off left. But whatever it is, I'll be anxiously waiting, and I think we talked about this when we talked about the first Spider-Man game. It's crazy how many we've gotten, really in a pretty short amount of time. Like we got the first teaser, then we got the first game, then we got Miles, then we got that Venom teaser. It feels like not too long ago, and here we are talking about it now, having played all the way through it Pretty nuts, and we got Wolverine coming up. So like, even if they're done, once they're, are we going to get? We're getting Wolverine first, right? I think they said that comes out in 2025.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's been officially announced, but the rumor is that it might even be their game next year, because they've been on a pretty like consistent cadence.
Speaker 2:So we'll get Wolverine before we even get Spider-Man three. So which is exciting, so hope, as long as that game is made to mature. I'm, I'm, I'm about it.
Speaker 1:When they made the end game comments. I hope that means more like referring to the stakes and just like putting a cap on a long running story, and not that they're just going to introduce a bunch of characters, because yeah, that's how I took it, but it could go that. It could go either way.
Speaker 2:Eric wants portals though, so we're going to get true, we're going to get portals.
Speaker 3:We're going to get.
Speaker 2:Daredevil, apparently in DLC, everyone keeps talking about that I remember Daredevil. So more and more characters Bring it on. I would be sick. I love Daredevil.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would. I would love to play as Daredevil too. That'd be great. But yeah, guys, this was a ton of fun. I'm really glad that we decided to do a crossover event, otherwise it would have been a three hour, our end game if you will, yeah.
Speaker 3:What a bitch is a three hour singular episode. That would have been crazy, probably a milestone for for either of us that would have hosted it. So I, like I love this. This was great. All right, is there anything else about this game? Again, if you want to hear our ratings for this game and a unique perspective from a spoiler free side of things, definitely make sure to check out part one of this conversation over at your friendly neighborhood gamers. But spoiler wise Phil, andrew, anything else that you guys want to say before we close out the conversation on Spider-Man 2?
Speaker 2:No, I think. I think we covered it all in the in the last three hours and, yeah, it was a fun time. Like I said, I'm glad that we were. We had the wherewithal to split it up Again. Shout out to Jay, I suppose, for coming up with the idea, but I would like to think that was all us, so go us.
Speaker 1:Jay who he hasn't even played this game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's got a PlayStation tattoo and hasn't played the multi-million dollar success that is Spider-Man 2.
Speaker 3:And I'm not the Sony bro. I explain it to me. It's true, not fair.
Speaker 1:He'll probably play last of us part two remastered or whatever the hell it is.
Speaker 2:I'm not happy about what I'm going to do. Yeah, you part of the problem. I really was because, like I was like, oh cool, ten dollar upgrade. And then I saw the collector's edition.
Speaker 1:I was like I really need those cards.
Speaker 2:No, you don't know, you don't know, what I could do is I could support an artist on Etsy who has made the cards themselves, painstakingly recreated the cards themselves. Or I can give Sony the money, not even. Or I can give Neil Bruckin the money, who clearly needs it, yeah.
Speaker 3:All right, guys. Well, I think we'll do a little bit of an abridged closing, because if you came here from your friendly neighborhood gamers, you've heard us talk for about three hours now and you know, you know we're to find our stuff in the show notes.
Speaker 3:You know to join our Patreon to support us. Five stars and Spotify, apple podcast. This goes for both the way for a podcast and your friendly neighborhood gamers. Go support them on their podcast, their YouTube channel, all of the above. With that being said, this was a great time, gentlemen, but my name is Mr Eric Almighty. That is my co-host, phillip Filipino, and our guest, andrew from your friendly neighborhood gamers, and please remember, for our podcast, we release new episodes every Wednesday, including bonus content on platforms like Tiktok, and all you have to do is wait for it.
Speaker 1:So I heard you're looking for a go-to source for entertainment. Wait for it Gaming. Wait for it Anime Plus, ultra. Mr Eric Almighty and Phil the Filipino yeah, they've got you covered and all you got to do is wait for it. This is the wait for it podcast.