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The Wait For It Podcast
Hosted by MrEricAlmighty and PhilTheFilipino, the guys discuss all things in Pop Culture from movies, gaming, anime and anything in between. New episodes every Wednesday, all you have to do is...WAIT FOR IT!
The Wait For It Podcast
Late To The Party - Man of Steel
We investigate Zack Snyder's 2013 Superman origin film Man of Steel, comparing it with the new 2025 Superman movie and reflecting on how its controversial approach continues to influence superhero films a decade later.
• Krypton sequences featuring Russell Crowe and Michael Shannon stand as the film's strongest segments
• Flashback structure feels disjointed and lacks clear purpose or emotional throughline
• Kevin Costner's tornado death scene remains controversial and doesn't make logical sense
• The massive destruction of Metropolis during the climactic battle set a precedent superhero films still react against
• Henry Cavill never got the opportunity to show Superman's hopeful, optimistic side
• General Zod provides a compelling villain with understandable motivations
• The film's neck-snap ending needed more emotional aftermath to be effective
• DC's rushed attempt to create a cinematic universe ultimately undermined what could have been a thoughtful trilogy
• Animated Superman adaptations like "My Adventures with Superman" often capture the character better than live-action
Letterbox'd Synopsis: A young boy learns that he has extraordinary powers and is not of this earth. As a young man, he journeys to discover where he came from and what he was sent here to do. But the hero in him must emerge if he is to save the world from annihilation and become the symbol of hope for all mankind.
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Speaker 2:Gaming. Wait for it Anime PLUS ULTRA.
Speaker 1:Mr Eric Almighty and Phil the Filipino. Yeah, they've got you covered, and all you gotta do is wait for it.
Speaker 2:This is the Wait For it Podcast. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Wait For it Podcast. I am your co-host, phil Barrera, aka Phil the Filipino.
Speaker 1:And I'm your other co-host, mr Eric Almighty, and for this edition of Late to the Party, we are here to talk about the new edition of Superman that has been released for the world to enjoy. Oh wait, no, we're not. We're actually here to talk about man of Steel. Huh Well, phil chose this one. Guys, not me.
Speaker 2:Well, Eric is just such a big fan of Zack Snyder.
Speaker 1:Biggest. So I really wanted to, one of my favorite films of all time. Just going to put it out there now.
Speaker 2:He just really wanted to. He didn't say it like outwardly, but I could see it in his eyes. When he walked out of 2025 Superman. He was like too bright Too bright.
Speaker 1:I don't like it.
Speaker 2:We need the Snyder cut of man of steel is what we need is there a snyder cut of superman 2025 is probably what the snyder fans are wondering right now. So, yeah, 2013, man of steel this is a movie that I never saw, one because superman as a character has always bored me to death, and we'll talk about that throughout this episode. And also, this was right in the midst of Marvel ramping up to its peak. 2012 is when the Avengers came out, and you know, looking back on that movie now, has it aged? Very well, no, but they were doing something unprecedented. And then man of Steel comes out and you know they hit the panic button. So we're going to talk about all of that here today. We'll probably sprinkle in some 2025 Superman, because how are we not? And, eric, I also watched some other Superman that we'll talk about here throughout here in this episode as well.
Speaker 2:So for those of you that are new to the podcast, welcome in. Thank you so much for checking us out. This is Late to the Party, and if you want to see any other or hear any of the other movies, television shows that we may have missed out on, make sure you click the Linktree link at the end of this episode. I'll let you know where you can find everything as well once we wrap up. But 2013,. Man of Steel, eric, let's go back in time. 12 years ago. Zack Snyder, a young boy, learns that he has extraordinary powers and is not of this earth. As a young man, he journeys to discover where he came from and what he was sent here to do, but the hero in him must emerge if he is to save the world from annihilation and become the symbol of hope for all mankind. So, eric, henry Cavill, amy Adams, russell Crowe, kevin Costner, for a little bit, did you see this in theaters?
Speaker 1:I did, I did. Unfortunately, this is a movie that I saw in theaters on the grand stage. It's probably loud, it's a loud movie. Very loud, very bright. I thought I might have had a case of epilepsy epilepsy at one point, but I was OK, I was fine, and I then walked out and the discourse started and we haven't stopped talking about Zack Snyder ever since. So you know, there's, there's good and then there's that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So if some of you Snyder twats find this episode, I'm telling you right now this isn't going to be for you. The grip that this man has on his fans is crazy. And of course, we did a whole episode with Shout to the Short Box. We did a whole episode about the Snyder Cut of the Justice League. We enjoyed that.
Speaker 2:We spoke our praises about Zack Snyder the person, because he seems like a great guy. Zack Snyder the director is a different story and that's what we are here to talk about. So, yeah, once again, I had no interest in seeing this film. I haven't seen any of the older Superman movies, so he just always seemed like a very bland and boring character. And the only time he's really been interesting to me, Eric is in injustice when he is a villain, because he's not this like cookie cutter boy scout that I assumed that basically that was the whole personification of the character. So we're going to try something a little bit different for this episode. As we try to mix things up a little bit, Eric, do we want to go ahead and jump into kind of a? We're going to do kind of some takeaways that we both have and you obviously have. It's been a while since you've watched this. This is fresh on my mind, so I'm sure you're curious about how I felt coming away from this.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So me and Phil talked about like why we were going to actually do this episode and I thought it would be really interesting. Phil brought it up and I thought it would be really interesting that, with Superman having just came out which might have been your inspiration for bringing it up I thought it'd be really interesting to hear your perspective as someone who saw James Gunn's Superman first and then actually watched man of Steel. Now, of course, I do think that you know enough of man of Steel to go in kind of forming an opinion. So I'm very curious from that aspect how you felt going into it. But once we kind of talk a little bit about the intro, we're going to talk about how you got into this and how we got into this as a group on this episode.
Speaker 1:I think it'll be really great for us to mix things up, and me and Phil talked about doing just a list, Maybe our top three takeaways, whether they're positive or negative. We're gonna bring up the top three things that we really wanted to discuss and then you know, we could throw it out to anything at that point before we do our game at the end where we compare this movie to other films we've seen. So, Phil, that's kind of how the structure of this episode will go. But like what was your initial thoughts? Getting ready to press play with what you've known, Because you obviously had to have known in pop culture some of those big moments? Did you feel like that took anything away, Just so we could get your state of mind going into it and coming out of it?
Speaker 2:So of course I knew the memes. I've watched many youtube videos about why the dceu fell and why it failed a lot of them very recently, of course, with essential rebooting now of the dcu with james gunn and the other guy. I always forget the other guy's name, which is very disrespectful. They are partners, but James Gunn is just front and center.
Speaker 1:James Gunn and the other Gunn brother right, is it Patrick?
Speaker 2:Peter? That's after the P, the other guy, so it's obviously on everybody's mind. I alluded to the Snyderverse fans. They're still around and popping up and trying to be loud, but luckily they're being drowned out.
Speaker 2:So I had to tell myself I have to go into this film with an open mind and not just immediately hate it based off of what I knew to begin with. And I'm very much so glad that I did, because I did not hate this the way that I thought. I thought I was going to be like. I thought it was going to be a chore, especially since it's what two hours and change, right, couple where it's two, two, nevermind two and a half hours, two hours and 23 minutes, so not even two hours and change. So I had to ensure that I went into this with the right mindset, especially after and also knowing this is going going to, of course, be a very different experience than the David Cornsweat and James Gunn Superman that we just saw, and I, as I've gotten farther away from that movie, I've liked it even more. I will not raise it to a four because it is not, but in terms of how much I enjoyed that film, I enjoyed it a lot, so big shoes to fill for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and not only did you watch a Superman movie in 2025, twice in James Gunn's Superman, but then you watched man of Steel man, you are on a fucking roll with Superman content. Peter Safran, safran, there we go, safran, I think.
Speaker 2:Safran, safran, yeah, alsoaffron, I think.
Speaker 1:Saffron Saffran yeah, also the guy. I forgot that James Gunn's Superman was supposed to be called Superman Legacy. Why did they change that? I'm not sure, but now we have to call it James.
Speaker 2:Gunn's.
Speaker 1:Superman. So it's probably an ego thing, more than likely. But yeah, let's jump into this and we have three things each that we are going to talk about and highlight. I probably have the easiest job because, as somebody who wanted to talk about your perspective of this film, now I've got the easy job out of the two of us. I'm gonna start with the first one, which I don't know if it's a popular opinion or not, but it's the way the movie kicks off and that's with everything to do with krypton. So film this movie and obviously, guys, spoilers this movie's been out since what? 2013. We're going to talk freely about the film.
Speaker 1:Krypton is probably the coolest part of the movie. I actually think, if you look at the movies that zach snyder made to that point and has made since, I genuinely think that was the movie he wanted to make and I really liked Russell Crowe, michael Shannon and just that whole environment. I was vibing with the beginning of that movie. So I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are on that, those characters and specifically in the beginning of that like prequel period, because after that we very much get into your standard origin story. I mean, superman doesn't even know how to fucking fly, so we get into a whole bunch of stuff before we get to the finale. The beginning to me, though for how good it was, kind of a mid, middle and then a very controversial ending is always the thing I go back to is the beginning of that film and how it made me feel. Did you feel like that at all, or what were your takes from the beginning of it?
Speaker 2:I liked that it wasn't just like pure glass Like we've seen in, like old Superman movies or Superman TV shows, whatever it may be. It didn't look like a really like overly sanitized room, like if somebody sneezed in there you'd have to like shoot them on sight, like you can't have any type of germ. So I like that it had. I like it. It felt like an actual lived in place and I agree with you, I would have liked to stay there a little bit longer. There's like flying creatures and very much just look like a, like a color graded Pandora. If you just took away all the color from the Avatar movies. There's these crazy creatures flying all over the place. You know, obviously there's the political intrigue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now, when I look back on it, like I think that probably would have cooked. Like how far back into Superman's past do you want to go? Because obviously he's just a baby, so it's not like he's going to be the focus of that movie. So like what people have, what audiences really been interested in a Krypton movie? I don't know, you know, and we'll never, probably never know. But yeah, it was very interesting. You know, it's got like, like you said, flying dragons going around all over the place. It certainly caught me off guard because I didn't know that any of that in the beginning had really existed. So yeah, I agree, definitely a tone setter that was never followed up on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a shame, but I did figure that was probably out of the whole film. It was probably the part that you saw the least of when it came to like pop culture or meme moments. So yeah, the meme moments in this movie, unfortunately, are exactly what they are in the film. It's not like Interstellar where, like we always saw Matthew McConaughey crying and then, when we actually saw it, or when he's shouting at himself, both of those are like fucking emotionally stirring, heart-wrenching scenes. In reality, no, the memes are just the memes in this movie. So it was nice to kind of get your thoughts on probably what I think is the most positive part of this movie. But, phil, what is your first takeaway from this film?
Speaker 2:So my first is that it felt like the flashbacks were put out of order and I don't know if that was a on purpose decision or if they didn't realize that it was done until the movie had already come out.
Speaker 2:Because we're jumping around all over the place one moment, you know, I think it starts off, he's on the ship right and then saves the people on the oil rig, and then he's a kid again and he's discovering his powers for the first time. Then he's working at a bar, then he is pulling people out of a bus like that goes into the river. So I did not understand why those were put in that order. It's not like there was any type of specific structure like, oh, he saved kids from a bus and now here he is as an adult, also good with kids. It just didn't make any sense to me as to why those were placed in that order, because we've seen movies where flashbacks are not in chronological order, but there's usually some sort of point that they're trying to make or something they're trying to set us up for. That never happened and it was confusing.
Speaker 1:Very, very confusing. I'm sure this is a good example of movies just relying on it a little bit too much when it's not necessary. I mean, how much do we really need? I think this movie really suffered from the fact that they felt it needed to be an origin story, and I think that doesn't help with that pacing again.
Speaker 1:It feels like we were seeing and this was the early signs of zack snyder not being, I mean, man since 2013. This man can't make the movie he wants to make crazy to me, but this is the first sign that we got to see of like him struggling with the studio and what movie he wanted to make, because I don't think he was interested and maybe there's an interview where he says he is, but I don't think he was that interested in actually making a Superman origin story, which is why I feel like the beginning of the movie and the end feel like sandwiched on top of whatever this movie actually is, which is most of its runtime, and for how controversial the ending is, at least there's a distinct style and taste to it that I think matches what I kind of felt at the beginning at least. So anyway, that's my thoughts on it. I do want to mention this before I forget it. Zack Snyder at that point had made Dawn of the Dead, which people like 300.
Speaker 2:I like that movie. I love Dawn of the Dead.
Speaker 1:I didn't say I didn't like it. I just I don't. I don't think I ever really I know I watched it. It was one of those movies that I don't know that I've seen all the way through, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it. But Dawn of the Dead, people love that movie. I understand why 300. I like that movie, people like it. Watchmen never watched it. People enjoy it. We talked about this the other day legends of the guardians, the owls of gahool. I just added it to the late to the party list because you gotta see that fucking movie film I guess so maybe that is rise of guardians, I have to.
Speaker 2:I got, you got a lot of did I add rise of Guardians on here.
Speaker 1:Just think I'll erase it later, but yeah, oh, dude, that's such a great fucking December episode, holy shit. Anyway, sucker Punch in 2011.
Speaker 2:I didn't watch that Sucker Punch I heard was a big letdown.
Speaker 1:I heard it was a big letdown, but I remember wanting to see that movie so at least it generated some interest. And then after that you got you know BVS, all the shit with Justice League, army of the Dead, rebel Moon, like come on now. Army of the Dead's fine.
Speaker 2:It's carried by.
Speaker 1:Dave Bautista Shocker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shocker. We're at the point now where Dave Bautista can carry your subpar film to a watchable film, so good for sure which is good for him, yeah.
Speaker 1:But I say all that to say like again, he's, he's made so many movies up into that point that worked for a lot of people. So this just unfortunately, under this DC umbrella especially, has always been such a sour taste because I just don't know that he ever made the movie he wanted to make. And the one that we got that was maybe the closest, is the one with his name in the title Zack Snyder's Justice League in 2021. And I like that film. It's a miniseries. I like that. I liked it more than I didn't.
Speaker 2:I know that it's controversial.
Speaker 1:I like it. I like it. You're going to have to add it in the B-movie scene here. You're gonna have to add it in the b-movie scene here.
Speaker 2:Great, awesome, copyright, awesome. I like dark superman made by snyder. We can't, we can't. The b-movie has consumed us. The b-movie has derailed multiple streams.
Speaker 1:It cannot seep into the podcast. There's no way. But, phil, I'll divert us back into where we need to be by bringing up Papa Kent and talking about the tornado death scene. So this is one of those meme moments. Just, you know. You know what the finger means. Don't use your superpowers where nobody will see you to come save me. Don't do it. Don't you fucking do it. I don't really have anything else to provide context for Phil. Is it as goofy as the meme world made it seem?
Speaker 2:It's so bad because it doesn't make any sense and the fact that he could have easily gotten there and back and, like you said, nobody would have even noticed him. They forget the dog. He carries the kid off and he could have easily carried him, he could have carried his dad, he could have gone and got the dog all in just one motion and it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Maybe this is where jurassic world got their idea for owen grady to to use his, his force hand to stop the raptors.
Speaker 2:If one finger could stop, superman five can definitely stop a dinosaur yeah, it doesn't. It's just so bad and even though we only saw them very briefly in the 2025 Superman, the emotional through line there is just so much better. And again, we spent maybe six minutes with them in total in that movie and I just never really felt the connection, and maybe also because I know how Martha is used later on within these movies, that I just get.
Speaker 1:Why did you say that?
Speaker 2:Why did you say that name? It's his mother's name. Also, people that I'm going to get off track here. Some people really liked Amy Adams, louis Lane. I don't think she's very good in this and and she's outstanding in almost everything is that because you have seen it probably much better?
Speaker 1:lois lane oh, that's cool.
Speaker 2:I thought you're about to say is it because you've seen, uh, how it pans out later? But yes, I've actually seen two better lois lanes this year. Uh, that I'll tell you about here in just a moment. So so yeah, it just doesn't make any sense, and it is I. I had to let out a chuckle when I watched it, but also an internal, just shake my head because it was a pretty clear attempt at farming like forced drama, and because it's so stupid it did not land yeah, no, I could.
Speaker 1:I could understand that, phil. What is your second major takeaway from seeing this for the first time?
Speaker 2:yeah, this is probably my biggest, but I do want to bring it up right now is actually no, I'll switch these up. Let's talk about Zod. I like Zod. I thought Zod was done very, very well again, character I don't know really too much about, but when you talk about pure hatred, you know just hatred that you really want to admire. That is definitely I will find him his last moment between before being thrown into the negative zone, whatever. I don't know if those are the same thing.
Speaker 1:I don't want to fucking hear pocket universe again. Man, I saw that movie twice. Don't fucking say the word pocket. This is why you don't make it so many times I'm gonna talk that movie down to three. If you don't stop, I I really did not like it, especially the second time it was like stop doing it. But the General Zod, like I will find him, is very much the give me what I want, promo Give me what I want.
Speaker 2:That's not what I want.
Speaker 1:Give me what I want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so very much like that, and I also, you know, when you're talking about a being that is clearly at that point in time, at least in the beginning of their fight, is smarter and more savvy than Superman. You know, I like that they were able to kind of level him down a little bit, a regroup. I really just assumed that this Zod fight was the final hour of this film. I was like, oh my God, there's still an hour in this movie. Do they fight for an hour? It was nuts. So yeah, I really really enjoyed that performance and because we are so a villain performance can really make or break a film for us, especially when it comes to superhero movies. I thought that was a standout and wish that that character maybe could have stayed around a little bit longer, which you'll talk about in a moment yeah, well, I mean, do you remember now that you saw him in the flash?
Speaker 1:so do you understand maybe why they? They tried to bring him back. Yeah, they bring him back.
Speaker 2:They bring him back oh, wasn't one of those. Is it like towards the end of the movie? Where it's like the worst CGI in film. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Where, where, where they're, both flashes are present.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Batman Supergirl die a whole bunch. Yeah, they're trying to stop Zod. Yeah.
Speaker 2:All I can think of from that final scene is when they rotate around the two flashes and Supergirl and it looks like a GTA cutscene when you're about to start playing as a character.
Speaker 1:I'll just never understand how the CW version of Flashpoint could be so good at such a low budget.
Speaker 2:Not only that, they did Ultimate Earth right, Didn't they do Ultimate Earth on the CW too, I think so, but that might have been around the time I tuned out.
Speaker 1:I'll be honest with you I don't know that you'll ever do this, but if you ever considered watching the, Flash for Late to the Party.
Speaker 1:I don't even know Arrow, because I think I definitely wouldn't say the same thing about the first two seasons of Arrow. There are moments in Arrow that are fantastic, but then there are some pretty bad slog moments of just like fuck, let's get through this. The Flash from as a whole for the first two seasons, I would say pretty fantastic Flash television, yeah, so. So if you ever considered it, just throwing it out there, just never know, I would say the first two seasons of the Flash would be very much worth a conversation. But yeah, I am right there with you on everything Zod, and let's keep talking about Zod.
Speaker 1:With my third takeaway, I've got to split this into two parts, phil. So the first part of this is the destruction of Metropolis. Now, you obviously have heard that term. Now that you've seen it, is it dramatic to call it that? Is it dramatic to say, maybe it's weird that this version of Superman wouldn't I don't know primarily save a lot of people? Arguably, maybe even a squirrel, maybe even a squirrel and a dog. That's kind of the overcorrection I feel that James Gunn's Superman does, going to leave it alone. I do want to know, though, what are your thoughts about hearing this very controversial decision that was made in the movie and how it portrayed Superman versus what you actually saw. Were they one in the same? Did you feel like it's a little dramatic? Did you have a different viewpoint on it? Like, what were your thoughts in that big finale where millions of people had to have died?
Speaker 2:it's such a crazy whiplash because when they're fighting in smallville, it felt like he was going out of his way to save people and try to stop property damage as much as he could right, like within reason, and then we get to this bustling city, literally a bustling metropolis. What happens in man of Steel? You mentioned this the other day. We are still feeling the repercussions of it in superhero films today. We just saw it no spoilers. We just saw it in Fantastic Four.
Speaker 2:It happens pretty much inman 2025 to a degree in terms of trying to keep people safe and the only real scene I'd I had actually seen from it like clips here and there, but I obviously in like what was it batman versus superman? When they're like, oh guess what? Bruce wayne was there, why, who the fuck knows? But the level of destruction and just complete disregard of any human life, I was like people have not been over exaggerating on this for years. I was like it can't really be like that bad, can it? It is destruction on par with. I don't even there's nothing to compare it to that within film that I've ever seen outside of, like an act like what was that really shitty ross? What is that santa? What's that really shitty disaster movie.
Speaker 2:The rock is in uh san andreas, um san andreas, or like uh 2012, like that's what's happening there. But it's two guys, two guys in a sky beam we got sky beam. We got giant robot, we got that. We got everything like the trifecta here in the finale of the film and it's nuts man, and for them to just be so lazy in bvs to be like it's an over a newscast. The city of metropolis has been evacuated because of this.
Speaker 2:No, too late because they were trying to overcorrect from this, and we're still paying the price for it today.
Speaker 1:Get to the lifeboats but you're already drowning. Like that's crazy, like that's actually crazy. So the other half of this I want to bring up is the ending, which is equally controversial. Not just the deaths to that point, but I actually like what happens with Zod here. For those of you that haven't seen the film and you're still here, here you go.
Speaker 1:Zod is trying to kill those innocent people right in front of Superman. Superman has him in a headlock, isn't letting go, could kill him at any moment. Zod, seemingly knowing this, says you can mourn for these people if you love them so much, and goes to kill them with his laser beam eyes, head snap. Henry Cavill lets out just a grotesque scream and then we go on to the rest of the movie. But at least there's that moment of him regretting it. For me that moment works.
Speaker 1:If Metropolis doesn't happen everything that happened beforehand I think that movie really works. If youropolis doesn't happen everything that happened beforehand I think that movie really works. If you limit the casualties, you show like again, you show to look at this year's superman, a superman who's gonna go out of his way and make sure that every person within the realm of possibility can be saved. If you really show that and then you show him having to kill Zod, and you also instilled, I guess, what they were trying to do with versions of Batman in the past, where, like he will not kill, like if you tried to do that effectively, that moment could work very effectively. It didn't because of that. So I am curious, phil, I'm trying to distance those two things as much as people try to force them together. Now, just looking at the Zod moment, what were your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:to kind of wrap up, my third and final takeaway yeah, it doesn't bother me too much again, because Superman as a character is not something that is very near and dear to me, but I also think that it works, not only because of the metropolis thing that you mentioned. I, I do think that's part of it. I think it works even better if there is some. I'll combine this and I'll add on to your final takeaway. If there's like a little bit more introspective other than the scream, and then we fast forward and he's like working at the daily planet, and then the guy like want to go to the basketball game, like they just went through a catastrophic event worldwide, actually worldwide event, and like who knows how much time has passed, but it can't have been that much time time. And if we had just sat in that moment with Superman and like he is, he is having like this, this real conversation with himself about what he did. Sure, but then he's like glad to be here, lewis.
Speaker 1:I mean they're going to go watch a basketball game after the the destruction of Metropolis? I mean they couldn't even hold up.
Speaker 2:They couldn't even hold up watch a basketball game they're gonna be playing at Rucker Park like they're playing outdoors.
Speaker 1:They couldn't hold a football game for three years. After Katrina, you're telling me that's right. Yeah, they had to move a football team. Ridiculous. Yeah, the second you said it, I thought of Katrina.
Speaker 2:I don't know why. I thought you were going to bring up the football game in the Dark Knight, for Christ's sake.
Speaker 1:game in the dark night for christ's sake, or the dark night rises jesus christ oh yeah, no, I don't know. Hurricane katrina immediately came into my mind, which again kind of explains my feeling on the destruction of metropolis hurricane katrina, crazy crazy.
Speaker 2:So, again, if he just sits there, if we like see him dealing with that grief and that decision that he had to make, then it works much better as well. So, yeah, I didn't hate it. He was certainly not going to. What did people want him to? Let those people die? So, like, what are people upset about? Is it because, again, it's paired with the destruction of Metropolis? Is that why people didn't like it? I?
Speaker 1:think it's because it's paired Cause at that. At that point so many people had died so it just kind of felt like that was something he was cool with. And then he turns completely into like I don't think you let out that shriek unless you're just like so sad to kill somebody. Like it's so against your morals like it was grotesque good screen it was good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also, are you just going to let somebody with the power scale of Zod exist in a prison on your planet? Are they going to take him to a phantom zone again. Like what are you going to do? Like?
Speaker 1:father and mother like son, because they just literally froze them and took them off the planet that was getting destroyed. So you know, yeah, Maybe.
Speaker 2:So it seemed like the only sensible thing to do.
Speaker 1:But, again.
Speaker 2:They're trying so hard now to correct that.
Speaker 1:The squirrel scene in this year's Superman was extremely like on the nose. It was like okay.
Speaker 2:I thought it was fun, I think because I don't really care too much for that character. I just like that. It was silly and I had a fun silly time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. What was your third takeaway? I'm wondering if it's going to be positive, or did we get past the positive with the first one?
Speaker 2:I don't know that it's really positive or negative, because mine is Henry Cavill. I think got screwed when it comes to this, because I do think he is a good Superman. I think he's a good Superman. Is he a good Clark Kent? We never really got to see and that's a bummer. We've seen when he pours his heart into projects. He's such a good person. We've heard the stories about James Gunn and Peter Safran having that conversation with him because, you know, right before they took over, dwayne Big Dick Johnson was like I'm the power of the DC, about to change or whatever bullshit. So he begs to bring him back. He goes on Instagram, says I'm back and then a couple of months later, like you know, gunn and Saffron take over.
Speaker 1:So I think no, actually I don't know if you've seen the interviews. So James Gunn agreed to his deal the day that that announcement came out.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yep, which is crazy which is crazy, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then they talk to you know, they talk to him. Obviously he's very gracious. I would like to see him back in some sort of capacity, whatever that character may be. Um, so I think that's just the bummers that we never really got to see him as clark kent, whereas in this 2025 superman, you know, we get to see a little bit of that. And, eric, you get to see a lot of it in what I've watched the first few episodes of today, which is my Adventures with Superman, which is the animated show on HBO Max.
Speaker 2:It's delightful.
Speaker 1:I've considered watching that.
Speaker 2:That's great. It is so good. It's got a great Lewis Lane. It's got oh God, what's his best friend's name? Who?
Speaker 1:plays like the Jimmy Olsen. Yeah, it's got a great Jimmy Olsen.
Speaker 2:It's got a great Jimmy Olsen. It's got a bit of an origin story in there as well, but I wanted to, because I've heard so many good things about this, I was like I'm going to check this out. I watched the first three episodes. It is so good, which shouldn't really be too surprising. Animation has always been DC's thing. Obviously, the Harley Quinn show is one of my favorites, so it's unfortunate that Cavill never really got a full shot, because this was not meant to be a cinematic universe.
Speaker 2:I think Snyder wanted to do three movies. He wanted to do a trilogy of films similar to Batman. It was going to be its own thing, and who knows where we are now if that had been the case. The problem is like we talked about, I think, in the pre-show in 2012. Oh no, and we're going to get the episode in 2012. Oh no, in the beginning of the episode in 2012, the Avengers came out and Warner Brothers panicked and instead of getting two Superman movies, a Batman movie, a Wonder Woman, an Aquaman and a Flash, we sped ran to the Justice League movie, which ultimately, was the end of it, and Batman vs Superman is probably actually where it all starts to go downhill, which is a bummer the fact that we never got a solo Batfleck film, whether or not it was going to be good, but the fact that we got Batman before a solo movie. He was in fucking Suicide Squad and never got his own movie. I forgot. He's in that flashback with Joker and Harley until just now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So the fact that those movies you know that all those came out complete mismanagement, totally panicked. They could have taken their time and really done this right and I think Cavill could have done a good job. So really my takeaway is kind of overall, looking at Henry Cavill because we become such fans of him as just a person and he is a great actor, that's like. My final takeaway is that he didn't get a good shot, like a real shot at this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up, cause I was wondering how long we were going to talk about this movie without mentioning Henry Cavill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Which is unfortunate, this movie came out in 2013. Then, a couple of years later, batman V Superman, then Suicide Squad the same year, wonder Woman the year after, justice League the year after, and then we got Aquaman, shazam, birds of Prey.
Speaker 2:Aquaman made a billion dollars.
Speaker 1:I get it. People wanted to see that character, because that character at least seemed it's fun.
Speaker 2:It's fun right, it looks good, it's good.
Speaker 1:One of the only acceptable things about the Whedon version of Justice League. But you know, yeah, henry Cavill, definitely I feel bad for the guy, but you know he did have some shots at it. I don't know that they always landed. I think a Ben Affleck solo movie would have definitely worked with Batman. I don't love that version of the character personally, but I see the appeal. I see the appeal. I definitely think we could have gotten that. There are a lot of things we could jump into about this movie. Phil, I do want to just quickly go back to what you were talking about with my adventures with Superman, which is like it's kind of like anime influenced, which is why it's very much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very heavily influenced by anime. Something that I definitely wanted to check out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm surprised you checked it out. Honestly, uh, jack quaid superman.
Speaker 2:So I love the rookie gotta get jordan on that.
Speaker 1:But you know that was really interesting. I personally have always been for superman and the dc universe. The biggest fan of the animated series superman, the animated series batman the animated series Batman, the animated series, Batman Beyond, Justice League Unlimited.
Speaker 1:I really hope that what we're seeing out of 2025's version of Superman with under James Gunn and the rest of the leadership now I'm hoping we're going in that direction Getting a Jon Stewart is a great start. Those type of things, because that's where I really think DC was at its best and DC has always been at its best animated. But can they take the liveliness of those characters and those worlds and make them interesting in live action? That is TBD, but I think we're at least on the right step forward for that. Going back to man of Steel, Phil, is there anything that you want to throw out there? I think we kind of covered quite a bit. We might stick with this top three list moving forward because I think we really covered everything that we would have wanted to talk about on a positive, negative side.
Speaker 2:The final thing and I'm really sorry to end this on kind of a kind of a negative, because we did just praise Henry Cavill you don't get to be stoic. Superman right out of the gate, I don't think Right. He is so even-tempered as an adult throughout the entire thing. We never see like a young, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed Superman. He's just kind of boring from the very beginning and then that carries on all the way until the Justice League, and that again is another unfortunate thing that we never got to see him like.
Speaker 2:Show some personality yeah that is like very, very like slightly sprinkled in there throughout this movie, but not enough so that was really the only other thing that was like an honorable mention, top like top number four or something like that and we've seen him in films where he does show his personality, like that's that.
Speaker 1:We've seen him in films where he does show his personality.
Speaker 2:That's present in other films. He's a nerd.
Speaker 1:A lot of these things have to do with the direction of the film and the direction of the franchise and the universe and all of that right. Where did we land on this film, both on our Letterboxd scores and also our Late to the Party list, and how was this movie received from a score-based perspective, phil, do you have all that for us before we jump into our personal scores?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a little bit all over the place. So 57% tomato meter score, a 75% popcorn meter score, 7.1 IMDB rating, which is very high for imdb, as we say quite often. And eric, this is, I think when we talk about movies that are threes, this is the threeest three that ever did three, because that's its average score on letterbox. That that's the score that I gave it, eric, what score?
Speaker 1:did you give it? I also gave it a three.
Speaker 2:Because it's certainly there. Okay, so there are moments in this movie I was like this is a 3.5. And then the rest of it I'm like that might be a 2.5. So like when you meet right in the middle. So now, when I think of the most average movie that I've ever seen, it'll probably be this.
Speaker 1:I would like us to just take a moment to sit in this, to sit in this moment and understand that you can walk away disappointed from a film and still objectively say like I think this movie is. I could understand why people like it Not to the levels that some of you Snyder freaks like it but I definitely feel like this is a great example of a three for me, because this is a movie that has a lot that you can enjoy. I just mentioned the whole opening of this movie and the whole opening period was fucking great. While it didn't work for me for the most part, you know the ending. I understood that a little bit. And then you know Henry Cavill. Like there's not much you can really take against him other than the stoicness and maybe the direction of how they wanted that character to go. So there are elements of this movie that you can absolutely enjoy and it's not something I would tell people to stay away from necessarily. I would say form your own opinion and for me that's like a three. For me is like, yeah, I probably didn't love this movie If it was on, probably wouldn't watch it more than a second or two. I wouldn't actually find myself sitting down to watch this movie again, but I also wouldn't not recommend it to somebody, and that's kind of where those threes lie for me, which is a really weird spot.
Speaker 1:As far as late to the party goes, I regret to inform you this did barely beat out real steel. So as far as steel movies, it's number one, but it's not much higher. Real Steel's at 30. Halo Forward Unto Dawn is at 29. Man of Steel is at 28, right below Adventures of Tintin at 27. That is where I put it and it's like right there on the cusp of like the upper three tier for this particular series. Where did it land for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 29 for me so, but right behind Raiders of the Lost Ark and in front of Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio, which are also both threes. So it is on the same row as Real Steel, and Forward Unto Dawn.
Speaker 1:So we're kind of like in lockstep.
Speaker 1:It's weird. This has been like a couple episodes in a row where, like, we have the same number almost, but like ratings have been different for a lot of these. So this one was the same rating, same placement. Uh, not much to expect from there. So, phil, unless you have anything else you want to add, I will jump into our game that we do on late to the party called more like this, where I grab movies from letterbox and imdb and I bring up would you rather watch man of steel or this film, phil, anything else you want to add. Before we jump into that, no, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I guess the only thing I'll add on is like when we talk about you, you talk about the future of the dcu. You know james gunn at the helm, and we do have three examples of concept here. Obviously, with superman, we have peacemaker and we have the suicide squad film, the reboot, which I know you weren't the biggest fan of but I very much enjoyed. So three for three is pretty solid. We'll see what happens. You know we got the Lantern show. Jimmy Olsen is getting a TV show. We'll see how that goes. You know, isabella Merced just put her in more stuff. I'm good with that too. Remember when Dina killed the president of Israel the Superman. Dina killed the president of Israel in Superman. Last of Us is getting crazy Insane.
Speaker 1:Dina's the most overpowered character in the Last of Us universe yeah, insane. All right, let's jump into more like this. So I'm going to be taking a look at a couple of different films that IMDb and or Letterboxd bring up. You can obviously imagine most of these, if not all of them, are probably superhero movies. So let's just jump into it, phil, and call out the ones that you may not have seen, but for the most part, I think this is probably our comfort zone. Would you rather watch man of Steel or Hold on, I unplugged my headset on accident.
Speaker 2:We're back, are we? Yeah, I sat on. I was like I just heard something pop.
Speaker 1:that didn't sound good not that you didn't hear me anymore. All right, phil, would you rather watch man of steel or the first wonder woman?
Speaker 2:oh god, knowing what I know now, probably man of steel, wow. But the first wonder woman is you know it's. It's what people made people believe.
Speaker 1:So I shouldn't bring up 1984?.
Speaker 2:Actually I'll say Wonder Woman, because Chris Pine, chris Pine, the number two Chris on the list.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay. So man of Steel or Wonder Woman 1984?
Speaker 2:You don't have to do that. We saw that in theaters, guys. We rented out a whole theater. You didn't have to say that part Still. Don't have to do that we saw that in theaters, guys.
Speaker 1:We rented out a whole theater. You didn't have to say that part. Still. Don't have to bring that up Phil man of Steel or the Batman.
Speaker 2:Oh, the Batman. I mean, it'd be really hard to see either one of these movies because they are so dark, but the Batman.
Speaker 1:I'll throw out these two because they're not superhero movies and I don't know why they're on this list. Phil, would you rather watch man of Steel or Oppenheimer?
Speaker 2:why is Oppenheimer? Maybe because they're both about destructive forces destroying a city the same amount of people probably died.
Speaker 1:Just one movie didn't show it, yeah anyway, it was all about the implication the implication you keep saying that word. The next movie, phil, might surprise you even more than Oppenheimer. Would you rather watch man of Steel or Jurassic Park?
Speaker 2:I have like a whole Jurassic Park like mural right behind me. I have like a pair of Jurassic Park shoes and a giant Barbasol can.
Speaker 1:Why is it on the more like this for IMDB?
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think of any type of connection and I'm not. I'm not getting there.
Speaker 1:Would you rather watch?
Speaker 2:No, Hans Zimmer didn't do Jurassic Park.
Speaker 1:That was no John Williams. Yeah, would you rather watch man of Steel or the Suicide Squad?
Speaker 2:Which one is that? James Gunn, oh, the Suicide Squad. I very much like that movie.
Speaker 1:Yep, that's what I thought. Would you rather watch man of Steel or any of the three Christopher Nolan Batman movies?
Speaker 2:We know the Dark Knight, yeah obviously the Dark Knight, probably any movies we know. The dark night, yeah, obviously the dark night. I probably any of the, well, no, probably two and three, and then I'd probably watch man of steel before I'd watch batman begins.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's fair. Yeah, I, I don't think we're as high on batman begins as most people. That movie is rachel. Rachel.
Speaker 2:Christopher Nolan filmed these in a cave with a box of scraps.
Speaker 1:So a couple more movies to throw at you. These are mostly from Letterboxd. Would you rather watch man of Steel or Black Adam?
Speaker 2:Man of Steel. We got to finish Black Adam at the Super Bracket Bros Cinematic Universe meetup 2026.
Speaker 1:We do not. Would you rather watch man of Steel or the first Thor?
Speaker 2:Probably the first Thor, but I wouldn't be happy about it.
Speaker 1:Would you rather watch man of Steel or the Green Lantern movie with Ryan Reynolds?
Speaker 2:Man of Steel or the Green Lantern movie with Ryan Reynolds, man of Steel twice, especially what we know now, boy, a lot of these people have not aged.
Speaker 1:No, they have not. And they're both in the Green Lantern. Would you rather watch?
Speaker 2:Man of Steel or Avatar man of Steel, I don't, ever, don't, ever. Insane. I was at the theater the other day and my daughter was like will you take me to the new Avatar movie? I was like I would rather set myself on fire. I'm not taking you to go see.
Speaker 1:They're a decent time. I don't know what to tell you, man. I'm sorry, yeah. And then, honestly, I think I know the answers to like almost all of these here. I'll throw out this one just because it's you. Would you rather watch man of Steel or Godzilla, king of the Monsters?
Speaker 2:Godzilla, king of the Monsters, six times.
Speaker 1:You did give it a three and a half. You are consistent. Yeah, that's my list, guys. There are so many other films here, especially MCU films, but again, those are just the ones that stood out probably the most to me for this game. But yeah, that wasn't too bad actually. I mean there were some obvious ones in there, but you chose man of Steel a couple of times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a fine three is three. That ever did three. So nothing really more that we can say beyond that. I think this was a really interesting perspective for Phil to be able to give us and a nice little reminiscing for me, which is going to be what some of these episodes are all about. So, phil, thank you for bringing up man of Steel as the option here. Superman is much of the talk of the town and maybe not for much longer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in a very good place. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, fantastic for a lot of superhero stuff happening. That just wrapped up by the time this episode actually airs. So if, yeah, we are done with the talk of man of Steel, I think we can maybe go watch James Gunn's Superman one more time.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I did actually watch Thunderbolts for the second time and you know that movie is much more enjoyable when you don't have probably what's a Snyderverse bitch yelling in your ear. You know talking the whole movie. So I did up it to a three and a half so.
Speaker 2:I did enjoy it on a second watch through where I could hear what was going on. But, yeah, Superman in a good place. Maybe my Adventures with Superman is coming down the pipeline. Season 1 and 2 are both out on HBO, so maybe that's something we need to jot down. I definitely plan on continuing to watch that show, but, yeah, what do you guys think? What did you think of the new Superman? What did you think of the Snyderverse?
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Speaker 1:Yeah.
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Speaker 2:This is the Wait For it Podcast.
